• ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      Idk, I personally think that being the leader of the nation that fought the hardest and lost the most citizens in the fight against Nazism deserves praise. Also his Collectivization of Rural Areas worked well, besides Kulaks who would rather watch their farms and crops burn than see it collectivized.

    • 🏳️‍⚧️ 新星 [she/they]@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      If you think being a teenager is an insult, then even if OP were one, you should be embarrassed that one bested you in argument.

      Unless you’re suggesting that the CIA was filled with a bunch of teenager tankies?

    • SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      40 hours a week here. Pay my own bills. Agree entirely with OP. Stalin was, in fact, a very good man, and partially responsible for the liberation of Europe from Nazi occupation. The ideological progeny of those same Nazis like yourself, NATO, and the EU will never forgive him for it, nor the millions of brave Red Army soldiers and Soviet civilians who fought, struggled and died against them.

    • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.mlM
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      1 year ago

      Tell me sincerely, because I want to get into the mind of someone like you, do you really believe that wikipedia is a trustworthy source on literally anything? Like deep down, when you go fetch a wikipedia link, do you really think “yeah I’ll just link wikipedia then I won’t have to make a point myself”?

      • cloud@lazysoci.al
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        1 year ago

        Wikipedia is trustworthy enough for famous historical events, you won’t find write in it that the gulags weren’t real

        • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          It is in fact precisely such highly political historical topics that wikipedia is most untrustworthy about.

        • Buchenstr@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          all of these sources come from western analysts during the cold war, all of whom belonged to western think tanks designed to propagate misinformation against communism.

          Your sources are inflated by people long dead and their relatives pump this same shit for you to consume. Gulags existed, so does labor camps in america, america also regularly massacred students and workers. And caused a silent famine to happen in the midwest, yet you scream communism to drown out any forms of alternative information you feel uncomfortable about.

    • KiG V2@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      Gulags were prisons. And they were, in many ways, more humane and rehabilitation-focused than any Western prisons. This is scratching the surface of the issue.

      The real issue is you not bothering to fathom that the capitalists will fight tooth and nail, including psychologically, to stop the rise of the singular ideology that threatens their millenia of power.

      • KiG V2@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        I understand that there is a mountain of propaganda convincing you that Stalin was evil, but literally name one thing supposedly wrong witb LENIN. Nothing, not even the usual CIA and Nazis could be bothered to make up stories about him.

        You are operating under the assumption of, “well, all the people around me say these people are evil, so, they must be!”

          • comrade-bear@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            What I have to say is to point you towards the Dessalines git post and ask you to find the issues with his sources or his statements wikipedia is not an unbiased or in depth source, look at the primary sources of your information who they were how they got that information. Like Dessalines looked at it and countered it with good sources now you are pointing back at the target of the Dessalines criticism without even acknowledging the criticism. I have no problems with disagreement, as long as its in good faith but you glossing over and huge documentation of criticism and just repeating your point cause Wikipedia says so does not look like good faith

          • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.mlM
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            1 year ago

            In case people are still reading this thread, Kronstadt were Whites (not the skin kind, the White army). Some at Kronstadt called themselves anarchists but the group otherwise committed pogroms and was fighting for the White army. Not that OP really cared, all he wanted was to attribute something to Lenin to criticize him for.

      • cloud@lazysoci.al
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        1 year ago

        Can’t you see that you are pretty much doing psyop yourself? There’s no such thing as a good dictator. Stalin isn’t good because they sentenced to dead less political prisoners than the Tsar or Hitler. They are all shit. Do not worship a dictator.

        • ∞🏳️‍⚧️Edie [it/its]@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          [Genie meme]

          You: I wish [“tankies”, or whatever else you want to call us] stopped worshiping dictators.

          Genie: Granted

          You: Nothing changed.

          Genie: Correct.

          fucking liberals

          I understand that you can’t understand our comments. I mean, if you did, you’d realise we don’t worship anyone.

          But… damn, you can’t even read the image in the post.

        • KiG V2@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          The CIA admitted they invented the hogwash about Stalin being a dictator, and admitted he was merely the “captain of a team.”

          The only reason we think of him as a “dictator” here in the West is because anybody that has resisted the West’s demands for total prostration is a “dictator.” If you want examples of REAL dictators you should look to all of the right-wing egotistic maniacs the U.S. government sponsored from centuries past to the present.

          There is a difference between a “dictator” who kills fascists, capitalists, monarchists, slavers and saboteurs trying to actively destroy a system that is saving and uplifting hundreds of millions of lives, and an ACTUAL dictator who kills twice that number in women, children, socialists, racial minorities, sexual minorities, religious minorities, while plundering the country and essentially enslaving their own populace.

        • Beat_da_Rich@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          You can find plenty of communist criticisms of Stalin. They appear on this forum from time to time.

          Maybe try engaging earnestly and give specifics. You may get even more context from us that might change your view. Or, hell, we might even agree with you. Stalin did good things. He also did some shit things.

          Instead, you’re relying off of the Stalin boogeyman myth that even the US government has admitted is false.

        • cloud@lazysoci.al
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          1 year ago

          You may want to read the biography of Marx and the historical events of the 19th century. Wikipedia offers a good recap and data for further reading.

          • DankZedong @lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            You could read actual works by Marx but it would require being able to read pages longer than a Wikipedia article.

            • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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              1 year ago

              Franz Mehring wrote thick biography of Marx, he was direct witness of many events and knew even more participants. I must read it someday when i will have some time.

            • cloud@lazysoci.al
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              1 year ago

              Your assumption that the person you are talking to isn’t familiar with it gives away that you are full of bullshit. Pick up a bunch of history books irl and read them from start to finish. Stop learning from memes and reddit posts.

              • DankZedong @lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                The person I’m talking to links Wikipedia articles and tells me to read ‘history books’ lmao. Of course I’m not taking it seriously.

                • cloud@lazysoci.al
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                  1 year ago

                  And who do you take seriously? People telling you exactly what you want to hear?

                  You seem familiar with Marx so cross check yourself the data with Wikipedia

              • ∞🏳️‍⚧️Edie [it/its]@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                Ok. I mean, I’m not going to do it IRL, since I have them on my tablet, but I’ll go read Blackshirts and Reds, Triumph of Evil, the Book of the Hopi, The Cold War and Its Origins, The Hidden History of the Korean War. I’ll also recommend you read them.

                Edit: How could I forget Killing Hope?!

                • cloud@lazysoci.al
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                  1 year ago

                  Read them all and draw your own conclusions on whether Stalin was a brutal dictator or someone to worship. I suggest you to read on paper or eink display to not strain your eyes.

    • SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      Wikipedia links? Really?

      I’d get it if you came in like: buh whaddaboud diss?

      But nah, you accused us of worshipping these men and compared us to neonazis (btw the USSR ended the fucking holocaust and made antisemitism punishable by death).

      Do some self-reflection. You do not know what you are talking about in the slightest, and we do.

    • MarlKarx@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      “learn history” we did, you’re the one who should stop using wikipedia as source for controversial political topics

      • cloud@lazysoci.al
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        1 year ago

        early '900 and ww2 are well documented even on Wikipedia, unless you are one of these who find the holocaust controversial

      • GaryLeChat@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Everybody knows that Wikipedia is literally unrefutable fact, especially on controversial or political topics. Why would someone lie or omit facts on the internet??? Next you’re going to tell me that I can’t trust CIA press releases too!!!

        • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.mlM
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          1 year ago

          Everyone knows teachers love it when you use Wikipedia in school, it’s a real problem in some high schools because it’s a trick to get an easy A, if your teacher assigns you a topic for a paper you can just send them the wikipedia link for it and they’ll be forced to give you an A because you don’t actually need to do the work yourself in school

        • DankZedong @lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          Wikipedia is notoriously untrustworthy and gets brigades heavily by the CIA, especially on topics like this.

          For better sources, use this. Look for gulags and the purges you mention and see what is written.

          • cloud@lazysoci.al
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            1 year ago

            There’s just as much the CIA can patch, Wikipedia still provide a good account of famous historical events and plenty cross links, you can search for yourself and read the individual history of many who died on gulags or that got send there. Not even the CIA can spin history 360 degrees

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKUltra

            If you have even better sources to wikipedia that’s good but your link redirect to reddit and vague articles and even to wikipedia itself

            • DankZedong @lemmygrad.ml
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              1 year ago

              For starters you could read actual socialist theory but I know you won’t. If you’re truly acting in good faith, give youtuber Hakim a listen. Or The Deprogram podcast. Or Second Thought. They have various videos covering a multitude of starter* topics and they provide sources with their claims.

              Edit: if you’re looking for insights on how the CIA does spin history 180 degrees (360 is a circle, btw, you’d end up at the same point) then give The Jakarta Method a read.