Summary
Donald Trump criticized President Biden’s decision to commute the sentences of 37 federal death row inmates, calling them “violent criminals” and wishing them to go to hell.
Trump also took the opportunity to sarcastically wish a “Merry Christmas” to Chinese troops in the Panama Canal and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
Trump’s post also included references to his previous attempts to purchase Greenland and his suggestion that Wayne Gretzky run for Canadian Prime Minister.
Would you be for a death penalty in cases where you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person that is accused is the perpetrator? And by shadow of a doubt, I am not referring to the very loose standards that most law enforcement relies on. I mean that the person was caught in the act.
In my case, no…for two reasons.
First, you can never be 100% sure you have the right person (especially given a lengthy history of police falsifying evidence, etc., and there can always be other factors involved). If you incorrectly put someone in jail you can attempt to make amends later, but how do you make amends to a person you murdered?
Second, given how human beings have evolved and how their brains function, life in solitary would be a far worse punishment if the goal is to punish or make them suffer for their crime. If your goal isn’t punishment or reform, but instead simple revenge, then I suppose this argument wouldn’t carry much weight for you.
I feel you are misunderstanding me. I am not asking about hypotheticals where the police lie. I am saying that in a hypothetical where YOU can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt.
It’s not about rehabilitation or punishment. It’s about logistics. If there is a dog that repeatedly attacks other people, children and dogs and rehabilitation has failed. The only recourse would be to terminate that dog as it is unsafe for society for the dog to be allowed out. Sure, you could build a secure containment facility to house your inmate dog but at what cost. At that point you are then taking resources that could be better spent to help people in need to contain a problem that will not be solved. I am actually in agreement with you that it’s a far crueler punishment to keep somebody alive in a non autonomous position that they would hate.
He’s got some real skill at expressing inarticulate, impotent rage.
And if there were a Hell, Trump would be headed for the least pleasant precinct in it.
He’s already there, and we’re living in it with him. This is the bad place.
Yeah but I actually think he is one of the Demon actors
I’m pretty sure his hell would be serving in a soup kitchen for thousands of years. Volunteering.
Why do we have to hang on every word this fucking arsehole says? He’s an utter cretin.
Four years.
Four goddamn years I had to wake up every day and pay attention to what asinine shit the President of the United States tweeted.
Because, unfortunately, that utter cretin had the nuclear button.
And now we have to endure another four years of the same.
Shit, for all the bad things you can say about Biden, you can at least say that whenever you heard a story start with “Today, the president said…” in the news, you weren’t immediately going “ah fuck here we go”. Four years I dealt with that kind of reflexive dread.
God, I wish I could just slip into a coma until 2029.
Honestly, if we get out of this one without some sort of nuclear exchange, I’m going to be mildly shocked. Remember: this is the guy who had to be talked down from nuking a fucking hurricane, and apparently it took a while to convince him it wasn’t the sharpest idea.
Well the media invested a lot of time and effort to get him elected and now they want to cash in on all that hard work.
Personally I’d like to keep up with the Canada comments considering he’s threatening to annex our fucking country. Americans, fix your country
It’s not my country. Mine has it’s moments but it’s not that stupid.
It doesn’t feel like it’s our country anymore either…
Ah sorry to imply you were. Edited my comment
Because he’s itching for vengeance against his enemies and is about to be in charge of the most powerful military and intelligence operations in the history of the world.
Trump is sad that he only gets execute one of the remaining three. The other two (Dylan Roof and Robert Bowers) are destined for bigger things in the Trump cabinet.
He sure does talk a lot of shit about death penalty for someone who allegedly committed high treason, punishable by death.
Why I don’t support the death penalty.
Not to mention that no other OECD country except for Japan still has it.
Before I clicked this link, I already had visions of that kid with tears in his eyes as they put him in the electric chair… and hoped that it wasn’t the same one.
I’m surprised to learn he’s 14, he looks 9!
I have two reasons why I’m against it.
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Innocent people will get sentenced. There’s no way around that. Sententing an innocent person to death is among the greatest injustices I can think of so I’ll rather have someone guilty walk free. Granted that sentencing an innocent person to life in prison aint that much better but this is where the second reason comes in.
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I don’t believe in free will. Punishing someone for something they did is not compatible with the way I see the word*. It’s like punishing a grizzly bear for attacking a person. If you’re danger to society you should be locked up one way or another but not as a punishment but to keep others safe. I think that even if you’re a murderer you should be treated well and we should figure out a way for them to live relatively normal lives behind the bars. They can’t help themselves. They didn’t choose to be born that way and thus shouldn’t be punished as if they could have acted otherwise.
*Risk of consequences still works as a deterrence and that “punishment” be it fine or jail time should still be carried out because otherwise it loses its credibility.In extreme cases sure, tho I feel the need to point out the context of the vats majority of criminals being conditioned into crime by their surrounding. Poverty and discrimination come to mind among others. I my opinion the best way to prevent anything is to hit it at its source, in this case making every day life more livable. Not only does that mean life must be comfortably affordable, but mental health should also be a top priority.
I don’t disagree with any of that nor do I feel like it goes against anything I just said.
Quite so, just felt it was an important caveat to add.
Doesn’t point 2 kind of justify execution too? We’re not chosing to execute that action it was pre-determined that we would execute that person from the moment the universe began.
Just because it happened doesn’t mean it wasn’t a mistake that we can learn from. In that regard, it was not justified.
Now if you are talking about taking the same action in a parallel universe, then that definitely depends on the perspective you’re modelling.
I feel like you’re considering death penalty to be the default, but if the same logic is applied while considering lifetime in prison as the default, the result would be the opposite.
And considering that death of age looks to me more natural, I’m inclined to think no death penalty should be the default
Yes if you believe in fatalism which I don’t.
So the guy being executed has no free will but the people executing him do?
Sorry, but I don’t understand the argument you’re trying to make here. You seem to be implying that no free will would mean we live in a fatalistic universe but I don’t think that is true. Fatalism doesn’t make any logical sense to me. It seems to imply action without a cause which is the exact opposite of what determinism means.
My understanding is determanism means every actions is based on perfectly predictable physical systems such that everything would go exactly the same way if the universe was reset and run again. In such a situation the people executing the guy would be no more capable of not executing him than a rock is capable of ignoring gravity.
I’m not sure if determinism necessarily means that re-running the “simulation” would always produce the exact same result. It’s conceivable that some randomness could exist, where a single elementary particle behaving one way rather than another millions of years ago could change the entire trajectory of the universe. You can always track backwards the causal chain of events but I don’t think you can do it forward. Not even if you’re Laplace’s Demon.
While I believe it’s true that people couldn’t have acted otherwise - meaning that if an event, like an execution, happened, it doesn’t make sense to say it could have been avoided - that doesn’t mean the future can’t be influenced. A person may be “pre-determined” to kill, but if you intervene and manage to convince them not to, their change of mind is still perfectly compatible with the absence of free will.
I absolutely agree with point 1.
I’ve never really thought about point 2. I don’t think I’m ready to say I don’t believe in free will, but I do agree that people are largely a product of their circumstances. I think in the case of a serial killer, it might not meet your definition of “free will” but it’s a person who has been methodical about the taking of life and not shown any contrition.
I would however add point 3. I don’t want to take someone’s life even if they deserve to die.
… and point 4 I just thought of… there’s not really any good reasons for capital punishment. It’s not a deterrent, and who cares about the cost of incarceration really.
Cost of an execution is more than the cost of life in prison as well.
I don’t believe in free will. Punishing someone for something they did is not compatible with the way I see the word*.
Let me guess, part of the Sam Harris cult?
That’s a bit loaded question but yes.
No it’s not. He is a confidence man repackaging a New Age interpretation of Buddhism into Atheist friendly language
His core belief, that freewill doesn’t exist is predicated upon a very generous re-interpretation of the Libet study, a study often refuted by Benjamin Libet himself who noted that what many ignore about his experiment is the existence of what he called “Free Won’t”
In which subjects showed that although the readiness potential existed, it was still possible for them to change their mind and not press the button regardless of how much readiness potential was present.
Other studies on the subject have lead to radically different results.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/free-will-is-only-an-illusion-if-you-are-too/
tl;dr for this article
They did another study that suggests meaningless decisions have readiness potiential. Such as idly scratching an itch or deciding what leg you’re going to start walking on. However readiness potential is NOT detected at all if the decision has actual weight behind it.
As tested with a study where people were asked to push a button on the left or right to determine which of two charities would get a thousand dollar donation. Readiness potential was only detected in the control group, which was told to push a button to decide which charity they personally liked better with the 1000 dollar donation being split evenly between them.
Meaning that if a decision requires any thought behind it at all, it was consciously made by a free agent.
At best Libet’s work shows that we have a subconscious mind, which is not going to be a revelation to anyone with a 2nd Grader’s understanding of Psychology.
Sorry my friend, I’m afraid you exist, your choices matter, and Sam Harris is a hack who unironically suggested a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Arabic Communities under the premise that belief in Allah was an incurable mental illness that can only lead to mass genocide and a thirst for white blood.
Basically there’s not much difference between Sam Harris and the Spirit Science guy outside of what team they play for.
So it was a loaded question.
Punishment is a behaviorist intervention. It doesn’t rely on the concept of free will. In fact, it depends on the lack of free will to make any sense at all. If there were free will, people would be able to change without punishment.
But killing someone isn’t a punishment. It’s a deterrent. It’s not designed to change behavior. It’s designed to end it.
Carrying out a punishment doesn’t make much sense as the person couldn’t have done otherwise but not carrying it out sends the signal to others that actions don’t have consequences and thus the deterrence stops working. That’s why we have to “punish” people for breaking the law. Not because it makes a difference to that specific individual but it sends a signal to others.
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History is filled with innocent bodies due to the death penalty.
but he was the first “president” to march in the “pro life” rally 🙄
Reminder that about 1 in 25 people on death row are estimated to be innocent.
Reminder trumps been found very very guilty.
That seems very low.
And yet way too damn high
That’s a good thing.
He should do that himself, he would be right at home.
We don’t want him
Old man yells at clouds
In the great Christmas spirit.
Actually he said “Governor” Trudeau
were just given, incredibly, a pardon by Sleepy Joe Biden
dumfuk lying again. on purpose. trying to get the cult riled-up over ‘pardons’ that didn’t happen.
a commuted sentence is not a pardon.
these 37 men are still guilty. they are still in jail… for life… without parole. they will remain there and never be released.
The best part is nobody fucken knows what that means and they just believe these dudes are instantly set upon the streets.
It’s just insane to me how many Americans are so stupid that they don’t hear something like that, and think, “well that’s quite the claim, I wonder if it’s true…”
These people have zero incredulity. They choose to believe the most insane shit with no evidence based entirely on how they feel about the person who said it.
I mean I see it happen on Lemmy with fake tweets and such. Divide the parties into eight at least, destroy Citizens United and make its practices illegal. Only allow campaign donations from the public, no private entities. We have to fix this before we all fall to tribalism and the systematic deconstruction of education.
It’s one part demonization of education, and one part media stoking outrage.
Who the fuck cares what this guy writes on Christmas. Dude just says the same ignorant shit over and over to rile up his supporters.
A tyrant’s rage
A nation divide
Like toddlers tears
When rattles denied
“That was my thing!”
Now broken plans
As he wipes a tear
with little hands
Biden stole
His hateful thunder
Who’s next in sight?
I mustn’t wonder.
“You first.”
