• WuTang @lemmy.ninja
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    1 year ago

    I really hope israel will loose their wildcard and be accountable for all this shit. Just remove their privileges!

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      They won’t. The extermination of Palestinians has been a stated goal of Israel and its allies for decades.

      They’re not going to be punished for pulling the trigger.

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        This is the full transcript of the recording between an Israeli IDF officer and a resident of northern Gaza

        “Hello?”

        “Muhammad?”

        “Yes”

        “How are you?”

        “Yes”

        "This is an officer from the IDF calling you. For your own safety I’m asking you to go to Khan Yunis as fast as possible "

        “Where to?”

        “In the direction of Khan Yunis. ASAP. I don’t want you to put yourself at risk, that’s why I’m telling you to go there.”

        “All the roads are blocked”

        “Where you are right now isn’t safe, you need to… blocked where? Who blocked it? Hamas?”

        “Yes”

        “What?”

        “Yes, that’s correct”

        “Where did they block the road?”

        “At Salah ad-Din”

        “Salah ad-Din?”

        “Yeah”

        “How did they block it?”

        “They’re just forcing people to go back home”

        “Are they putting cars on the road? Police cars or…”

        “Yes yes”

        “How exactly? Explain it to me. Please, did you see it with your own eyes?”

        “In a car, people are going south and they’re just bringing them back home”

        “How did they block the road?”

        “They’re shooting at people”

        “Shooting what? Are they shooting at people that want to leave?”

        “Yes yes yes”

        https://twitter.com/ItayBlumental/status/1717466384794300882?t=7HRQJ5h29HRlfhN1fCl3mQ&s=19

      • RedAggroBest@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Israel=The Israeli govt. in basically every conversation within this context. Trying to say “but both right?!” When that’s what everyone has been saying from the start, makes you look like you’re acting in bad faith.

          • RedAggroBest@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            That you’re an Israeli shill? I was trying to be nice about it, guess not. See how I use Israeli to refer to people? Since it’s Israeli citizens who lose because of an extremist Israel? Hamas are terrorists, Israel is an apartheid state. The citizens both groups have control over are suffering and your trying to conflate denouncing Israel and antisemitism. Stop.

    • Blackmist
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      1 year ago

      It’s hard to go against them in the West.

      The right hate Muslims so side with Israel.

      The left hate to be called antisemites, so hand-wring over civilian deaths, but ultimately side with Israel.

            • HaggierRapscallier@feddit.nl
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              1 year ago

              True, but effectively on the political stage, he is the opposition. Understandable that non-politically online people/normal people call him left.

            • hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest
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              1 year ago

              Agreed but you’re splitting hairs. My grandparents who voted for Biden aren’t really “the left” either.

              My ex who i’ve convinced to switch sides on this issue but is too afraid to say anything publicly because she doesn’t think she knows enough of the history to take a stance isn’t really “the left”, but she voted Biden too.

              Pretty much all of the Democratic leadership except Ilhan Omar.

              They’re not leftists but they are “the left”

              • Blackmist
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                1 year ago

                The “viable left” I suppose.

                Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t that left either, yet you go to one Hamas Terrorist funeral, and suddenly you’re a terrorist sympathiser and out come the photos at election time.

                Sure, you can be left in the West, but not in a way where you’ll get even a sniff of power.

          • Ferrous@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            Keir Starmer?

            Everything I read about this dude characterizes him as abandoning left wing policy in favor of center, center-right policy.

            4th paragraph of his wikipedia page

            His leadership has been characterised by movement towards the political centre and abandonment of the left-wing platform of his leadership campaign, as well as by opposition to some of the government response to the COVID-19 pandemic and issues such as Partygate

            I just think it’s strange for you to insinuate that the position of the left is that of Israel’s.

      • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 year ago

        No one on the left is hand wringing over the civilian deaths but ultimately siding with Israel. Literally no one.

    • DaBabyAteMaDingo@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You recall that Hamas attacked Israel in the bloodiest assault in history, right?

      You guys make me embarrassed to call myself a lefty.

    • lloram239@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Just lovely how everybody is forgetting that Hamas is responsible for this all. They can end it any time they want, release the hostages and surrender, but they chose not to.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Prior to early October, Israel was completely out of Gaza, and was not attacking Gaza whatsoever, so no they weren’t killing them long before they took hostages.

          Also the entire siege is about trying to force Hamas to give up hostages. That is literally the reason it is being done. Hamas also has massive food, water, and fuel stockpiles they refuse to share with the people they “govern”

          https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas/

          Also they’re using that fuel to power the ventilation systems in their tunnels that run on generators

          https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-770123

          • a_random_large_banana@lemmings.world
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            1 year ago

            I urge you to get your source not from literally the entity being excused of genocide (or its direct allies e.i. US news outlets). they have enough money to throw so much propaganda at you that you would never believe anything else.

            from one online stranger to another: using and citing sources as such is an instant discredit.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I’ll look up any data you want, if you’ll acknowledge that without the Iron Dome, casualty comparisons would be wildly different.

                  I have severe issues with some of Israel’s past actions. The invasion of Gaza in the teens was an incredibly poor choice. Hamas has bombed Israel 7,000+ times in the last 2 weeks, Israel just has top tier defenses against rocket attacks

                  That doesn’t make what they’re doing now wrong, or give Hamas a leg to stand on.

                  I wonder what the US would do if the Mexican government launched 7,000 missiles at us.

                  • UnspecificGravity@lemmings.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Why are you still talking about the last two weeks when the entire point of this discussion was about what happened before October? Just say that you only discovered this issue two weeks ago if that is the case, which is getting to be pretty obvious if we are being honest here.

                    You want me to acknowledge that more missiles would have hit Israel in the last two weeks if Israel didn’t shoot down those missiles? Yeah, no shit. Do you think that proves a point? Israel has very little to fear from Gaza, we already knew that.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        Just lovely how everybody is forgetting that Israel is responsible for that.

        Everyone can always blame someone else, especially in this conflict. It’s time for Israel to grow up and take responsibility for its actions. They have caused harm, anger, and hatred by using terrorism (fear and violence) to enforce their rule over people. Somehow we (the US and most of the west) provide them with resources and weapons though. How fucked up is that?

        • DaBabyAteMaDingo@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Then by that logic it’s fair game for native Americans to start cleansing all European bloodlines in the United States? As a Latino person, I can go into any southwest state and start killing my neighbors because their ancestors “caused harm, anger, and hatred by using terrorism (fear and violence) to enforce their rule over people”?

          How are you tankies this fucking dumb?

          • a_random_large_banana@lemmings.world
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            1 year ago

            But they’re STILL causing them harm and anger and using terrorism, right now, actively, even before the 7th of october, it’s been ongoing for over 75 years, it hasn’t stopped once, its been happening everyday in Gaza and the West Bank (where Hamas isn’t), besides the fact that the occupation power very explicitly stated its intentions of basically deleting every single Palestinian, even before the 7th of october.

            other than the starvation and thirst they’re forcing onto them, they keep bombing civilian buildings, they bombed multiple medical centers including a hospital where over 1000 people (injured civilians from the occupation’s bombings), over half of which were children, toddlers, and babies died.

            and to top all of that off, from https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

            Article 8, section 2.b: 2.b.i. Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities;

            2.b.ii. Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not military objectives;

            israel is committing war crimes and being praised and supported for it.

            nothing justifies the intentional or unintentional killing of any civilians, children, women, or men, EVEN IF THE ENEMY WAS KILLING CIVILIANS TOO!

            Let’s also not forget that israel is one of the largest and most powerful military entities in the world, supported by even larger military powers, going against this tiny patch of land called Gaza, where the people there have been continually oppressed for over 75 years, Hamas’s homemade mortars dont do nearly as much damage as israel’s US-made targetted missiles, and it’s obvious from the fact that no building has been brought down in israel by Hamas, while Gaza is being basically flattened as we speak.

            Do some research before posting online.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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            1 year ago

            No, dude. I’m not saying what Hamas is doing is “fair game”. I’m saying Israel has a responsibility in it, and they aren’t handling it well. In the past, I totally understand native Americans killing settlers, especially on their land that was promised to them in treaties that they agreed to when moving. Present day, this stuff isn’t happening. If anything, we’re trying to make up for those actions that we now see as a mistake. In present day Israel though, they’re actively performing those actions that cause the inhabitants to feel the need to fight back.

            Also, not a tanky. Not everyone who disagrees with Zionism is anti-semitic or a tanky. Grow up and try to come up with an actual reasonable argument.

        • lloram239@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Hamas has launched in the realm of 7000 rockets at Israel civilians since October 7. But hey, keep blaming it all on Israel. Lets make antisemitism cool again, you are doing your part already.

          And as always: Propose an alternative to how Israel should defend itself instead. Still haven’t heard anybody give one and it has been weeks.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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            1 year ago

            Why did you start counting at October 7th? Palestine, Hamas, and Israel have existed much longer and been in conflict much longer.

            Last I saw, which was before this conflict, Israel has killed 27 (I think, maybe 23 or something around there) Palestinians for every Israeli killed.

          • Serdan@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Commiting genocide against a civilian population is not self defense. How can you read an article like the OP and just be completely empty inside? How broken are you?

            • lloram239@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              Commiting genocide against a civilian population is not self defense.

              For one, they don’t.

              And as always: Propose an alternative to how Israel should defend itself instead. Still haven’t heard anybody give one and it has been weeks.

              But keep listening to that Hamas propaganda it’s totally not rotting your brain away.

              • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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                1 year ago

                An alternative? There are infinite. They can start cooperating and make a good will gesture of returning occupied lands back to the Palestinian people. They can stop colonizing and murdering innocent civilians (which isn’t only just now happening, it’s constant in occupied lands). They can loosen restriction on travel between Gaza and Israel.

                The solution is to improve relations with the people. Attacking them and killing civilians only causes more hate, which causes more violence. It isn’t defence. It’s genocide. They get Hamas to attack and they get to kill more Palestinians.

                • lloram239@feddit.de
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                  1 year ago

                  They tried that, didn’t work, each time they were meet with more Hamas terrorism. What’s your second suggestion from the pool of infinite alternative?

                  • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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                    1 year ago

                    They never tried that. They have been constantly expanding colonies and murdering civilians in occupied lands. The whole nation started with just some Jews colonizing the territory, and it was made official after that when they knew there was no stopping it (not that they would anyway). They did reduce their harm for a period, but they never really tried to do good.

            • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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              1 year ago

              Commiting genocide against a civilian population is not self defense.

              Only Hamas is doing that, though.

              • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Isreal is indiscriminately bombing civilian/Palestinian population centers and diving people out of their homes.*

                What Isreal is doing absolutely falls under the category of genocide.

                Kill civilians is indefensible.

                • mwguy@infosec.pub
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                  1 year ago

                  Isreal is indiscriminately bombing civilian/Palestinian population centers and diving people out of their homes.*

                  A 48 hour WW2 era artillery barrages would flatten the Gaza Strip. Believing that Israel is “indiscriminately bombing” the strip requires you to believe that they’re the most incompetent military force to have ever walked the planet.

                  • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    When I say “indiscriminate” I mean “disregard for civilian casualties” not “random bombings”.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Isreal is indiscriminately bombing civilian population centers and diving out people based on ethnicity.

                  These two things are mutually exclusive

                  • Serdan@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    You’re "um ackshually"ing genocide. Reconsider your life.

                  • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    They’ve been bombing civilian centers that they know are predominantly of Palestinian ethnicity.

                    They’ve been evicting people from their homes based on ethnicity. The law gives Isrealis preferences in land disputes.

                    And now they’re telling everyone in Gaza to abandon their homes.

                    These are three different actions.

              • Sparlock@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Would you prefer we call what Israel is doing ethnic cleansing instead?

                • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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                  1 year ago

                  That’s probably what they would like to do in their fantasies – make Gazans gtfo from that general area – but given their inefficiency of doing it, I don’t really know what’s going on. You don’t “ethnically cleanse” a rapidly growing population of 2 million by killing a few thousand here and there.

                  Their birth rate is about 24/1000, so about 50000 new children are born there every year.

        • lloram239@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          “Stop defending yourself while I murder you”

          Propose an alternative solution if you don’t like what IDF is doing, since otherwise all you are doing is nothing more than revoking their right for self defense.

      • Sparlock@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Israel doesn’t give two shits about the hostages. If they did they wouldn’t keep bombing where they are being held.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Because Hamas’s stated purpose is to destroy Israel, and they knew their attack would be met with reprisal, so they took hostages as human meat-shields