I think you’re severely misrepresenting how much value is in the crown jewels.
6 to 8 billion. Where the UK is current deficit is 120billon a year. And a huge % of the jewel’s value is entirely due to their history. Hence, the fact no one really has a clear idea what they would raise. But as I said, selling them is not going to effect the lives of the UK’s poor in any way that is measurable. A quick search, Our GDP is 2.274 Trillion 6 to 8 billion extra is not even notable.
The people making them were paid.
Were they paid a fair value for their labour? Looking at the exploitation of workers throughout history, probably not.
Yep, fair for the time. Your attitudes about labour rates over the last 800 years (age of the collection oldest) are correct. But there have always been skilled jobs that earned more respect and freedom than most. For most of the time included, jewellery making was more specialised than smith or artist. Both ion demand buy wealthy to the point they would have been the closest to middle class in the 1200 and well and truly a part of the middle class by the 1600s as tradesmen started to become the middle class official.
You also fail to mention that many of these jewels were likely extracted using slave or poverty wage labour.
Here is where I have 0 disagreement. But until we invent reverse time travel (we already have forwarded, but the speed of light likely means going back will never happen) Fixing the arsehole past of the human race is not an option. And do not forget, these attitudes of abuse being acceptable were far from a unique action of the rich or royal.
If instead of building one huge fucking building on one huge estate for one family we spread the land between the people and built multiple homes for multiple people there would be far more money going to the rest of society and many more people’s lives would be improved.
Agreed, and if you manage to discover faster than light travel. Ill look forward to never having lived in that world.
But also remember looking back on people over the past. Who literally had to build in a way that allowed their property to protect against war. Remember, the King/Queen of England did not actually have an army until post revolution. But was required to win the support of lords under his/her reign to keep the kingdom safe.
The simple fact is, trying to judge people of the past on today’s expectations is silly.
The serfs (public) of the time genuinely believed God was responsible for promoting families to kingship. As did the Kings and Queens. All evidence (and gowd there is a lot) indicate the royals of the 1200 to 1700s Genuinely believed in the religiose bullshit the spouted.
(the time most of the happened and is actually documented to some extent. Before gets harder.)
The monarchy are a parasite and you’re an apologist for that. You seem to think you’re using facts and logic to explain their being but there’s glaring holes in your analysis.
Really, no there is not. That is the thibg about facts and history. Trying to apply 2024 emotions and logic to the actions of people of the past has to involve understanding the mindset of those people. Wishing they were different dose not change the facts or the analysis.
Assuming that because I have an interest and understanding of history and the mindset of the people of the time. I somehow agree with them existing now. Is your error, not mine. All I did was point out the actual economic logic of complaining about the crown jewels.
But at the end I will give you a run down of my politics.
We’re poor as a people and a nation because we allow and give excuses for the ultra rich to be rich. There’s always going to be people who value wealth and those who don’t but to allow those who value wealth to hoard so much that we as a society struggle to function is moronic and should be abolished. I’m just an Internet nerd who likes to read, not a politician, so I don’t know where the line should be drawn on personal wealth but allowing a handful of people to have more wealth than huge swathes of society is morally and functionally wrong.
Yep agree. You seem to assume I am right wing because I have a logical understanding of our past economics and the world it was created in. To be clear I consider our past to be horrible. I just do not think blaming the children of the perpetrators is an effective solution. That does not mean I object to the UK becoming a republic.
But I do strongly believe that if the UK was to destroy royal land and palaces. Then our ancestors would not have a past to learn from. It is the documentation and image of that history that raised you to be offended by it. To think you would be the same person you are now if the horrors of the past did not exist. Is naive.
Like it or not. You today have opinions your grand children will be disgusted by. I can’t tell you what they are. But that is the point society evolves. For that to happen your great-grandchildren will need to see evidence of the shit your generation does. And weigh it with the good.
Yep, fair for the time. Your attitudes about labour rates over the last 800 years (age of the collection oldest) are correct. But there have always been skilled jobs that earned more respect and freedom than most. For most of the time included, jewellery making was more specialised than smith or artist. Both ion demand buy wealthy to the point they would have been the closest to middle class in the 1200 and well and truly a part of the middle class by the 1600s as tradesmen started to become the middle class official.
Here is where I have 0 disagreement. But until we invent reverse time travel (we already have forwarded, but the speed of light likely means going back will never happen) Fixing the arsehole past of the human race is not an option. And do not forget, these attitudes of abuse being acceptable were far from a unique action of the rich or royal.
Agreed, and if you manage to discover faster than light travel. Ill look forward to never having lived in that world.
But also remember looking back on people over the past. Who literally had to build in a way that allowed their property to protect against war. Remember, the King/Queen of England did not actually have an army until post revolution. But was required to win the support of lords under his/her reign to keep the kingdom safe.
The simple fact is, trying to judge people of the past on today’s expectations is silly.
The serfs (public) of the time genuinely believed God was responsible for promoting families to kingship. As did the Kings and Queens. All evidence (and gowd there is a lot) indicate the royals of the 1200 to 1700s Genuinely believed in the religiose bullshit the spouted.
(the time most of the happened and is actually documented to some extent. Before gets harder.)
Really, no there is not. That is the thibg about facts and history. Trying to apply 2024 emotions and logic to the actions of people of the past has to involve understanding the mindset of those people. Wishing they were different dose not change the facts or the analysis.
Assuming that because I have an interest and understanding of history and the mindset of the people of the time. I somehow agree with them existing now. Is your error, not mine. All I did was point out the actual economic logic of complaining about the crown jewels.
But at the end I will give you a run down of my politics.
Yep agree. You seem to assume I am right wing because I have a logical understanding of our past economics and the world it was created in. To be clear I consider our past to be horrible. I just do not think blaming the children of the perpetrators is an effective solution. That does not mean I object to the UK becoming a republic.
But I do strongly believe that if the UK was to destroy royal land and palaces. Then our ancestors would not have a past to learn from. It is the documentation and image of that history that raised you to be offended by it. To think you would be the same person you are now if the horrors of the past did not exist. Is naive.
Like it or not. You today have opinions your grand children will be disgusted by. I can’t tell you what they are. But that is the point society evolves. For that to happen your great-grandchildren will need to see evidence of the shit your generation does. And weigh it with the good.