Economists put reason for divergence down to Brexit and Britain’s energy price guarantee

Snapshot of Eurozone inflation falls to 5.5% in sharp contrast to UK. Economists put reason for divergence down to Brexit and Britain’s energy price guarantee.

  • G4Z
    51·
    1 year ago

    No

    What on earth do you mean ‘No’.

    Even by the measure that the OBR states, GDP per capita, UK was 2nd in Europe in 2016 and is still 2nd in 2022. The economic impact has been massively overstated.

    What’s that got to do with what I asked you?

    I’m talking about a figure that’s been spent/lost or not earned due to Brexit, and the OBR puts it at well over 200 billion now. Which is more than we ever spent on the EU in total over 47 years. Just a fact mate.

    Investment may have been delayed, but that’s just delayed. There’s plenty of money looking at undervalued UK companies in deeptech and fintech

    Or maybe, investment would have been even higher in the EU and we might have some of the top vert farm companies, like Germany and Finland does eh?

    I really don’t think you’ve demonstrated at all that Brexit has benefitted the vertical farm industry like you said it has.

    Simply, no Brexit benefits here, as per usual when you scratch the claim even slightly.

      • G4Z
        21·
        1 year ago

        It’s paywalled, perhaps you can quote me something relevant?

          • G4Z
            31·
            1 year ago

            Thank you very much, I’ve read it, but it doesn’t support what you claim and it’s actually quite a lightweight document.

            Your claim was that Brexit was a gift in the agri tech on account of the disruption and increased costs of farming associated with Brexit.

            This is the only part which strikes me as relevant to this claim

            None of these is necessarily bad, and there is a wider framework to consider as technological change offers up what Gove called the ‘third agricultural revolution’.43 The coming of digitalization, and with it robotics, provides the opportunity to switch from labour to capital, and hence the restrictions of migrant labour and the associated higher wages may accelerate the process, and this in turn may increase productivity, which is low in British agriculture (partly because of the cheap labour reducing the incentives to digitalize). There may now be the necessity to, for example, get robots to pick soft fruits.44

            The case for gene editing in agriculture is substantial. There are also considerable advances in indoor farming, urban farming, and the moves to insect- and plant-based proteins to replace meat production. British agriculture in 2030 and beyond will be very different, and in assessing the impacts of Brexit on British agriculture, the impact of policy on the deployment of new technologies will form a major part.

            Lot of ‘may’, ‘could’ heavy lifting going on there. Certainly doesn’t refute my point that all of this is/was entirely possible in the EU, and in fact the biggest vert farm companies are in the EU, not in the UK.

            Sorry mate, I gave this argument every chance to prove a Brexit benefit, this one is still very much ‘not proven’ for me, unless you have something better?

            • emerty
              11·
              1 year ago

              Opportunities obviously have to be couched in possibilities. Or do you really expect 40 years of bad subsidy to be undone in 3 years?

              Vertical farming is just one aspect of CEA, and before covid and brexit the UK didn’t need vertical farms. Now we do. Necessity is the mother of invention.

              There are plenty of other areas that the UK can regulate based on science rather than feels now.

              https://www.newscientist.com/article/2321556-uk-to-relax-law-on-gene-edited-food-in-post-brexit-change-from-eu/

              And other than agriculture, AI

              https://ukandeu.ac.uk/ai-in-the-eu-and-uk-two-approaches-to-regulation-and-international-leadership/

              • G4Z
                21·
                1 year ago

                I mean, you said it was a gift, and now you’re back tracking on that quite rapidly.

                Vertical farming is just one aspect of CEA, and before covid and brexit the UK didn’t need vertical farms. Now we do. Necessity is the mother of invention.

                Sure, but I don’t see how they’ve made it necessary in the EU and have 2 of the biggest vert farm companies, and somehow we couldn’t?

                There are plenty of other areas that the UK can regulate based on science rather than feels now.

                Right, but you’ve seen the shitshow we get from Westminster right? What makes you think policy will be any better, if anything our government seems to consistently make worse decisions than the EU does in my view.

                On AI, that’s just another lot of maybes, and so far I can’t see any tangible benefit you can point to in that article.

                Further, the EU changes and modifies it’s legislation all the time as well, so any future ‘benefit’ over being in the EU could just as easily be undone at a future date and then whatever advantage we had will be gone.

                I don’t think any of this is anywhere near justifying or mitigating the enormous damage that has been done to this country, it would be nice if there was at least something but I don’t see it.

                • emerty
                  11·
                  1 year ago

                  It’s a gift to the companies I work with. The problems caused by brexit, covid and climate change are opportunities.

                  Border problems? Customs tech is a multi billion sized market opportunity.

                  Food supply chain problems? Agtech opportunities

                  Labour problems? Automation, robotics, AI opportunities

                  If all you see is problems, you’ll never make anything out of anything

                  Right, but you’ve seen the shitshow we get from Westminster right? What makes you think policy will be any better, if anything our government seems to consistently make worse decisions than the EU does in my view.

                  I voted for lexit, as did the majority of trade unions, including people like Mick Lynch, it would be absurd to expect a right wing government to deliver lexit…

                  The benefits of leaving the EU will take years to realise. It hasn’t even got started yet.

                  • G4Z
                    21·
                    1 year ago

                    Well I sort of see what you mean, my company does payment systems and I personally earned a nice tidy bonus for my work on the NI border project.

                    I really don’t see though, how the government paying me that money to do that thing that didn’t need to be done before is really a benefit.

                    Most of these opportunities you describe would have been just as availablein the EU, maybe even more so due to how much easier R + D collaboration was in the EU.

                    It sounds to me like you’ve kind of got the blinders on with this, vote for it by any chance?

                    I voted for lexit

                    There wasn’t a vote for that, you voted to let the Tories decide for you.

                    It hasn’t even got started yet.

                    Oh yeah, I agree there :)