And it has all kinds of implications and context and shit.

How the fuck am I supposed to tell what’s just people doing things at random and what’s a part of all-singing-all-dancing-shit-show the neurotypicals call “social norms”? Down with NTs.

Honestly while it’s really fucking annoying that refusal to participate could result in some silly neuronormo interpreting a completely innocuous action as an offense, and it can cut you off from social shit, I think it’s basically the only way. The same button never does the same thing twice. Screeching rn.

  • Acute_Engles [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    43·
    2 months ago

    Might I ask which pointless social norm prompted this? I’m pretty good at helping my wife who’s autistic navigate them.

    My ADHD ass understands that I’m breaking the social norm but reaaallly needed to say something lol

  • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    42·
    2 months ago

    mfw I found out that “are you hungry” actually means “will you eat with me” and “what’re you doing this weekend” means “would you like to make plans?” 🤦

    these are things I learned in the last 12 months – I just turned 42

    pretty much all the time, it feels like everyone got a memo that I missed

    • Acute_Engles [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      29·
      2 months ago

      Once again this comes down to allistic people being afraid to be honest or vulnerable. If i ask you to go for dinner and you say no i have all the bad feelings of rejection and shame. If i say “are you hungry?” And you say not really i can still continue as if i wasn’t rejected.

      It used to be an innuendo to ask a person “would you like to see my etchings(drawings)?” I remember a teacher of mine finding old newspaper comics that reinforced this

    • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      27·
      2 months ago

      I often ask my wife “are you hungry” and then we both have a discussion about both our hunger levels and actual willingness to eat, lmao

      We really do need a Gayroller-2000 style emote for neurotypicals.

        • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          19·
          2 months ago

          madeline-smug That’s pretty cool actually, we arrived at the optimal solution individually. Convergent Neurodiverse Evolution!!

          Ikr, imagine having to ask weirdo questions instead of just saying “Hey wanna get food with me?” or something? Common neurotypical L toriel-glare

      • Gorb [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        14·
        2 months ago

        But this makes sense because i want to know other people’s hunger levels to make a decision on what to do about it. The followup question is usually about what kind of food and when and coming to a consensus on what eataging will satisfy our differing hunger levels.

        If I’m asking a rando colleague out to lunch my question literally just is. “Pub?” And i get a yay or nay

    • Duży Szef [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      18·
      2 months ago

      HOW MANY MORE COMRADES HERE ARE OLD ENOUGH TO BE MY PARENTS :kitty-cri-screm:

      spoiler

      You’re cool, I love you for being cooler than my dad. It sucks my dad isn’t as cool :sadness:

    • BountifulEggnog [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      17·
      2 months ago

      I found out that “are you hungry” actually means “will you eat with me”

      Oh I just realized this one too, a few seconds ago. I wonder how many times I’ve said not really when I should have said yes??

        • magi [null/void]@hexbear.netEnglish
          11·
          2 months ago

          How many people were flirting with us or just trying to be friends with us, and we were totally oblivious??

          I would imagine quite a bit, can be hard to tell with NT people, though I generally can pick up quite a bit though I have had quite a few people just randomly ask me out or what not in the past so they can misread me being interested in them makima-think

          • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            12·
            2 months ago

            misread me being interested in them

            oh yeah 🤦

            took me way too long to figure out that people were reading my natural cheer and enthusiasm as romantic interest instead of just the general interest I intended

            • magi [null/void]@hexbear.netEnglish
              12·
              2 months ago

              Yeah I get that a lot also funny because I’m ace and just my natural way of talking can be misread as flirtation or just because I’d listen to people talk about stuff lol people are weird

            • magi [null/void]@hexbear.netEnglish
              10·
              2 months ago

              Did they expect me to paw at them or something?

              I wouldn’t know, maybe they expected something to happen but lbecause you didn’t do anything maybe they were thankful.

              I’d have been the same, I tend to shut down if there is a lot of people. Like I’ll only really talk when spoken to so verbally I would be quiet and it would be misread as there something wrong lol. Depending on the people I would typically sit and happily listen to what goes on or listen to a radio or something if they were annoying lol I’m generally polite regardless.

        • frauddogg [they/them, null/void]@hexbear.netEnglish
          2·
          1 month ago

          God this one happened to me and I only realized the fumble I’d made like two years after the fact 'cause she was like. The homie, we’d often take our breaks and hit the smoke pit at the same time, one time when she’d gone back home for a holiday, she actually brought me back a jar of apple pie moonshine because I’d mentioned never knowing shiners who flavored their stuff-- I just thought she was one of the most considerate besties I’d ever had.

          Never mind the fact that I know what tattoos she has and exactly where they are, I just thought she was the homie. Been kickin’ myself ever since.

    • Moonworm [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      15·
      2 months ago

      People ask this because it’s an invitation to eat with someone without the respondant having to admit that they are would like to be fed, which could be consisdered as implying that their host or whatever is being negligent to the needs of their guest. It is a little silly. But, and I am a ND person who has learned a lot of this by trial and error, there are deep instinctual behaviors that these rituals are about. I’m not here to say whether or not any of this is good or not, but especially the rules about hospitality strike me as things that got ingrained into culture in order to make common uncomfortable situations more reliable by the means of rituals that people follow or don’t, indicating whether or not they’re someone who is going to play their prescribed role - this is maybe why there are often many ritual refusals and acceptances. It’s a way to play-act giving someone something that historically might have been precious and if they don’t play along, you can weed out people who are likely to take advantage of you. It’s imperfect of course and not considerant of neuroatypical people, but it just kind of had to work well enough to keep going.

      It is definitely frustrating to not know ettiquette and I often feel like throwing all of it out in favor of a more direct system. Sometimes I do! But for the rest of the time, I find that ettiquette manuals are super helpful, especially when they explain the reasoning behind otherwise inscrutable rituals.

    • Barx [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      13·
      2 months ago

      “what’re you doing this weekend” means “would you like to make plans?” 🤦

      Bad news: sometimes this is just small talk and the only way to tell the difference is tone of voice and context.

    • Jenniferrr [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      6·
      2 months ago

      Wow I’m allistic and I didn’t even realize those two haha. I mean, if I ask “are you hungry” and the answer is no, I’ll just be like “well do you wanna come with me to get food” if that’s what I’m asking lol

  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.mlEnglish
    38·
    2 months ago

    You should do what I do and assume that everything everyone does has some kind of hidden meaning and spend hours analyzing it.

    👍

  • Wertheimer [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    34·
    2 months ago

    I just learned this Persian word:

    In the rules of hospitality, taarof requires a host to offer anything a guest might want, and a guest is equally obliged to refuse it. This ritual may repeat itself several times (usually three times) before the host and guest finally determine whether the host’s offer and the guest’s refusal are genuine, or simply a show of politeness.

    The host is then expected to say one should not do taarof (“ta’arof nakon” - similar to “don’t be polite!”) for which the appropriate response would be to say “no” two or three times and then pretend to cave in to the host’s insistence and pile on the food.

    I suspect every culture has examples of this (we can find it everywhere from The Water Margin to Curb Your Enthusiasm), but it’s nice to have a word for one of these neurotypical song-and-dance routines that even the neurotypicals haven’t mastered.

    • SuperZutsuki [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      26·
      2 months ago

      I hate this kind of shit so much. It reminds me of trying to leave family gatherings and getting stuck saying goodbye to people for an hour. Leave the theatrics for the stage and screen, I just want to say how I feel in the moment.

      • Wertheimer [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        20·
        2 months ago

        Act I: Desperately trying to avoid being hugged

        Act II: Explaining and apologizing for your ARFID for the millionth time as they try to feed you dubious regional cuisine

        Act III: Desperately trying to navigate goodbyes

  • SuperZutsuki [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    27·
    2 months ago

    I feel like all social norms boil down to “Why do people do this?”

    “Because.”

    And NT people just go along with the norms that are forced on them, never questioning why things are the way they are. I always get hung up on the myriad possible meanings of everything that is said and done. For me, nothing has a set meaning and everything must be thoroughly analysed with the context, tone, events leading up to it, etc. I know NT people don’t think this way and just go through the motions but that’s how I instinctively approach social situations and it’s hard to just follow the unspoken NT rules, even when I know them.

    I don’t even think NT people like doing most of the normal routine but they’re too compliant to rock the boat.

  • Acute_Engles [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    21·
    2 months ago

    Honestly just speaking for myself as an allistic person i treat interactions with NT people as PvP. It’s a fundamentally dishonest environment where at best most people don’t care at all about you and just want to keep the day going without conflict but at worst people use the oversharing and the failure to follow norms as a way to fuck with people.

    If i don’t know the person or have a good read on them, I’m worried they might be a narcissist just looking for an angle. This is probably trauma from my momma but hey

  • Rom [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    211·
    2 months ago

    Why do people have to say “bless you” when someone sneezes? Surely even people who believe in souls don’t still think your soul escapes when you sneeze? Why do people even have to comment on normal bodily functions at all? Why is it rude if I don’t respond to people responding to me making an ordinary, involuntary bodily noise??? AHHHHHHHHHH

  • Duży Szef [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    191·
    2 months ago

    I gave up on that shit long ago, I just don’t care. My mom always gives me flack for it, because I’m either loud, or weird, or “inappropriate”. Fuck you. I’m going to be direct as fuck or joke about your NT “politeness”. Either open yourself up or I’m going to bully you for being a cowardly fake. Do trauma dump, do tell me how actually are you and not that “fine” shit, be forth and honest with me, don’t interrupt a liar with “Um, excuse me good sir. It seems your trousers are alight.” but with your favorite edition of animal feces (In Poland we say “Gówno prawda” or “Pierdolisz”). I had enough of these social cues and I’ll aggressively fight them and struggle against them. I’m not tolerant of them.

    I’m polite in my own ways, ways NTs consider “impolite”. Well then they don’t fucking know impolite.

  • joel@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    17·
    2 months ago

    Find yourself some similarly ND friends who you can be yourself with. There’s probably clubs around

  • Gorb [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    17·
    2 months ago

    Completely destroyed my own sanity by memorising a complex set of rules and over analysing everything to the point of mental exhaustion only to still get it wrong or be left in such an ambiguous state I can never know the true answer.

    The same button never does the same thing twice.

    I remember years ago wondering why interaction wasn’t deterministic and asking over and over “what is wrong with me” practically to the brink of suicide. Didn’t actually figure out I was autistic until recently. Honestly the only thing that helped was becoming racist to NT’s and masking only enough to basic interactions and work related shit. I only have 1 NT friend but he’s built different and genuinely tries his best to understand me in a way that he can be accommodating to my needs.

    I also had a friend who would confuse me with subtext i never understood knowing it confused me then would call me an idiot for not understanding and i just let them do this to me for years.

    • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      13·
      2 months ago

      Grats on the autism discovery!

      the only thing that helped was becoming racist to NT’s and masking only enough to basic interactions

      waow-based Uncritical support to your NT friend as well, very cool. I tried the memorisation shit and had to ditch it as well.

  • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    13·
    2 months ago

    I actually don’t mind the arbitrary rules that make no fucking sense because most of my rituals themselves are also completely arbitrary that also make no fucking sense if I try to explain it to other people. Even NTs find rituals comforting I guess. I used to despise their arbitrary rules, but now I’m mostly amused by it. For example, NTs respond really well to you saying “bless you” when they’re sneezing for some reason. Two simple words means you care a lot about their wellbeing apparently.

  • Azzu@lemm.eeEnglish
    9·
    2 months ago

    Yo, I can just say, chill. Other people, including NTs, are not important enough to get upset about. Also, sure, interactions are not understandable for you, but they are to them. Who really is “right” then? It doesn’t matter. You just gotta accept the reality of it and do the best with it.

    • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      14·
      2 months ago

      I’m right generally, fuck NTs for their utterly incomprehensible social rituals with no logical basis at all. pathetic

      In this specific case though I’m not hating on anyone, it just bugs me intensely that A) I might be sending signals to people without even knowing it, B) I can’t perceive things enough to interact. I do really like people actually, or else I wouldn’t spend so much time yapping online =) and fwiw I usually do try not to worry about it.

      • Azzu@lemm.eeEnglish
        8·
        2 months ago

        Just interpreted the “screeching rn” as you being actually upset. If that’s not the case, that’s good :)

        Idk, I experience A+B too, but I just don’t really make them my problem. If someone misunderstands something, I just ignore it unless it’s something really important, and there are rarely really important things.

        • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          11·
          2 months ago

          Well it does bug me when I get alerted to shit like that plays into REJECTION SENSITIVITY omori-manic oh boy!!! Same as not making them my problem, that works great and it’s fine for me until they cause a scene about it for whatever reason susie-heh

          • Azzu@lemm.eeEnglish
            2·
            2 months ago

            Yep, rejection sucks. Until you understand that they’re the problem, not you, then “rejection” is just a good filter for yourself. They’re filtering themselves out so you don’t have to deal with their shittiness.

            All the more when they cause a scene. I usually just walk away. Idk about you, how old you are, which social situation you’re in, but it’s interesting how much you can just walk away from that you never thought you could. Most of the time they either respect you more or don’t try their shit anymore because they know it doesn’t work on you.

            Anyway, I wish you lots of happiness and good interactions instead :)