I can relate to that loser in many ways, but I think the biggest hurdle that prevented me from fully taking the show seriously or it having any impact on me was the scale of the larger problem.
Like yeah, he was depressed, lonely, and abused, but at the same time… there are also literal demons about to the end the world. Yes, yes I know they’re metaphors for whatever. But come on. You cannot make the problem so grand, so earth shattering, and expect me to care about his depression. It’s the equivalent of feeling sorry for Jesus because he got nailed to a cross - suck it up, or else we all suffer.
Unironically, get in the fucking robot.
Though I guess this circles back to the problem of Omelas. Hmm
. I looked this up to see if anyone had made more coherent analysis comparing the show and story, but surprisingly, not many.“I would like to end the world because my father is a dick”
Get in the robot Shinji. This is literally the fate of all mankind, including yourself. Your options are to let everyone die and then you die 3 minutes later or get in the robot, be scared, and possibly live.
if we have to conscript child soldiers and we choose to conscript child soldiers maybe all mankind should fuck off
I don’t care if the Nazis razed their homes, killed their families, and will literally kill them tomorrow unless this position holds, I will not have a 14 year old boy join the Red Army. - robot_dog_with_gun
Child soldiers suck but if the only other option is literally just them being killed it’s a moot point.
meh, if it’s gotten to that point, we’re already doomed. every institution has already failed to leave that choice to a child. at that point I’m less interested in the psychology of the kid (who’s obviously fucked mentally) and much more interested in the story of how things got to that point.
IIRC child soldiers weren’t the only option.
But then NERV was never about saving the world, it was about fighting back juuuuust enough to create an opportunity for the absolute and final domination of the collective souls of humanity by a shadowy cabal who would be the immortal rulers of paradise. And also Gendo’s big widower energy.
I can relate to that loser in many ways,
the fucking shooter whaaaaaaat?
I think the biggest hurdle that prevented me from fully taking the show seriously
oh
Unironically, get in the fucking robot.
You mean, “get in your fucking mother”
So people making the objectively wrong choice and putting everyone and themselves at risk is too unrealistic too you?
No, it’s not unrealistic. But I feel like something high stakes like this would resort in extreme measures. Mr. Robot is basically Hacker Evangelion, and I think it shows a tad bit more realistic situation - the protagonist and his colleagues are constantly tortured, harassed, manipulated, etc. to do something because the stakes are high. Similar things happen in Evangelion but I don’t know, maybe i expected humanity to treat their teenage saviors like Jesus.
Kids nowadays know everything about evangelion but nothing about John the evangelist 🙏
I often can’t believe some Japanese guy thought of this and was ok with making it. Like, really dude?
Then I think of some American guy who wrote the book “It”.
Tbf the whole point of that movie is that Shinji is a horrible person who ends up totally broken due to his inability to even try and confront any of his demons.
Shinji is a horrible person who ends up totally broken due to his inability to even try and confront any of his demons.
Or he’s a very traumatized child who has been thrust into an extremely unhealthy environment, and manipulated every step of the way, and that eventually breaks him. I’m not saying he’s a great person, but it’s pretty clear that he never stood a chance from the get-go. He still chose to do what he did in that scene, but it’s not done in isolation with everything else he’s been through.
[CW: child SA]
spoiler
JAPANESE CHARACTER AFTER JERKING OFF IN FRONT OF A COMATOSE GIRL: “God I’m so fucked up”
AMERICAN CHARACTERS AFTER HAVING A CHILD GANGBANG: “This was totally a necessary scene”
pls cw
done
pls don’t banish me to the corgi dimension
Do people argue that that scene in It is necessary? Cuz I’ve never seen it included in any adaptation or reference (thank god)
American author being interviewed about writing that scene: “I wrote that? Jesus I need to quit cocaine!”
Does that really happen in the anime? I watched the anime series (no movies) and I don’t remember it at all thankfully.
It’s in the End of Evangelion movie. It’s not in the TV series, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t in the comic.
What comic? Eva wasn’t based on a comic
The comic technically started release first, but didn’t finish until like 2013. It has little differences throughout, and it’s ending is pretty similar to EoE. If you are into the franchise enough to watch the rebuild movies, it’s probably worth a quick read.
I cut things off at EoE. That and the series are a full story and I ain’t need more.
The explanation I’ve always heard was that it was his response to otakus jerking off to anime characters. I.e. women who can’t hurt you with rejection. This is who he sees them as.
From an article in which he is interviewed:
Anno understands the Japanese national attraction to characters like Rei as the product of a stunted imaginative landscape born of Japan’s defeat in the Second World War. “Japan lost the war to the Americans,” he explains, seeming interested in his own words for the first time during our interview. “Since that time, the education we received is not one that creates adults. Even for us, people in their 40s, and for the generation older than me, in their 50s and 60s, there’s no reasonable model of what an adult should be like.” The theory that Japan’s defeat stripped the country of its independence and led to the creation of a nation of permanent children, weaklings forced to live under the protection of the American Big Daddy, is widely shared by artists and intellectuals in Japan. It is also a staple of popular cartoons, many of which feature a well-meaning government that turns out to be a facade concealing sinister and more powerful forces.
Anno pauses for a moment, and gives a dark-browed stare out the window. “I don’t see any adults here in Japan,” he says, with a shrug. “The fact that you see salarymen reading manga and pornography on the trains and being unafraid, unashamed or anything, is something you wouldn’t have seen 30 years ago, with people who grew up under a different system of government. They would have been far too embarrassed to open a book of cartoons or dirty pictures on a train. But that’s what we have now in Japan. We are a country of children.”
“Japan lost the war to the Americans,” he explains
They lost it to China and the Soviet Union. But maybe losing the inter-imperialist rivalry hit them different.
The US specifically wanted to avoid the Soviets from entering the Pacific Front because they didn’t want them having any possible claims to Japan and potentially having to split the land akin to Europe. Pretty quickly after the US occupation there was a sizable communist movement seeking to gain power through election where they expected the US to hold up their public statements of freedom and democracy. In the end though the US cracked down on the leadership and essentially destroyed the movement. Though pretty pathetic now, the Japanese communist party still receives a decent chunk of the vote, though obviously nothing to actually disrupt the neoliberal hell.
the US specifically asked the soviet union to enter the war in the pacific at the Yalta Conference
The admin was still under FDR at Yalta. Truman was on a very different page than FDR about the Soviets, which led to dropping nuclear weapons to end the war before Soviets could get more involved in the Pacific
Thanks. Didn’t know this.
The Americans occupied them and rebuilt them into the neoliberal monstrosity they are today.
i think destroying the fleet of an island nation and blockading it was pretty major when japans armies were overseas
I think cocaine wrote more of “It” than Stephen King did.
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That novel would just be a collection of times that he did cocaine
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tbh every time I worry I’m writing something that’s too weird for people and everyone will think I’m weird for writing it I should probably remember that that scene went through a bunch of drafts and multiple rounds of editing before being published a bunch of times and the novel sold like hotcakes and spawned multiple film versions and stop worrying
I think the publisher assumed nobody would get to that scene cuz who the fuck is going to read that big of a book about a murderous clown?
The difference is that Evangelion is actually good unlike anything King ever wrote
King is hit or miss but by sheer quantity he has more great books than many writers in their whole catalogue
The Dark Tower series is fantastic. Also, you’re in a definite minority. Steven King is well known as one of the greatest authors alive. He’s wrote duds but much of his work is regarded as great, like Pet Cemtary, Christine, and Salems Lot.
Steven King is well known as one of the greatest authors alive
Your argument would be more persuasive if you knew how to spell his name :)
He has a book On Writing that is very, very good. He goes through his writing process, discusses other authors, gives advice of the trade, etc. He openly admits he’s merely okay/good at writing and that there’s eons of better authors than him. He is being humble, but he’s not the greatest writer alive by any means. He talks a lot about luck, name recognition, etc. that continue to propel him, and other shit ass authors, ahead.
The Dark Tower series is fantastic.
Dark Tower rules. I still think Complete/Uncut The Stand is, bar none, the best shit he’s ever written without a doubt. I haven’t got to Fairy Tale yet tho.
I get that you have fond memories of reading his books but “one of the greatest authors alive”? Really? It’s horror schlock for teenagers, it’s fun but it’s not this groundbreaking literature you’re making it out to be.
Lol. The dude literally defined a genre. Why do you think he’s got like a dozen movies made based on his books and several TV series?
I wanna make a show called Evangelion Proto-Revelation, where Shinji REALLY WANTS to pilot a giant robot but his loving father won’t let him cuz it’s too dangerous. Also he has a healthy relationship with his red headed roommate despite the mild sexual tension between them.
You might enjoy Gunbuster
I still don’t understand the ending
Tbh it felt to me like tons of symbolism to hide a lack of actual depth
AFAIK it was more like tons of symbolism to hide a lack of budget and time. It got janky and weird because they literally weren’t given the resources to finish it properly. But then they were also trying to be weird and obtuse in general as an aesthetic, to the point where there really couldn’t be a satisfying and comprehensible ending because you can’t explain what was going on because that ruins the whole baffling mysticism feel and you can’t just sort of resolve the tangible material conflicts without addressing all the weird mystic shit either, so instead they just went off the deep end and made completely incomprehensible nonsense with a shoestring budget and became iconic for it, so they just leaned into it even harder when they were given the resources to do more.
so instead they just went off the deep end and made completely incomprehensible nonsense with a shoestring budget and became iconic for it
Just look at Space Runaway Ideon’s TV ending if you want the “try to stick the landing with the budget we have left.” It’s mid, and Tomino was lucky to be able to do a double-movie to fix the ending (the second movie is probably one of the best sci fi anime movies).
The TV ending for Evangelion is hands-down one of the best things they did in the franchise.
so they just leaned into it even harder when they were given the resources to do more.
To see what they do when they actually have money, check the rebuilds, which have a very different kind of resolution, but I find them pretty good, too.
Have those finished yet? I think I saw up through the third one, then the next one was delayed by like 5 years or more.
They did, last year.
It’s a great show. Modern anime sucks. Prove me wrong!
studio trigger has some bangers. kill la kill and promare stand out as amazing leftist anime that directly call for revolution.
one piece is also leftist and clearly calling for revolution but it’s long and will take a couple more years to wrap up.
Would not call Kill la Kill ‘leftist’. Heard that before and tried watching with a girlfriend and had to shut it off because it’s WAY too horny for seemingly underaged girls.
Read a bit about it afterwards and something said the writer liked how Fashion and Fashism sounded similar and so the show is maybe against fascism but the horny talking sentient 400 year old clothes that occupy a teen girl and give her powers is creepy and we noped out.
Can’t imagine there’s any sort of actual leftism in the show, and if there is it shouldn’t be bundled with sex pest demon clothing.
I almost stopped watching for the same reason but let it play for another episode because it came on the recommendation of a good friend. there’s a particular conversation in 3rd episode that changed my mind because it recontextualized what was happening from the sexualization of girls to the same girls dealing with being sexualized while grappling with their own sexuality. you can decide for yourself whether the way the show handles it works for you but, personally, the show went a long way towards getting me to stop caring about how others saw me as a then baby trans. there’s also a noticeable change in how the camera (and the bystanders) treats the characters after that conversation – it stops leering at them and starts to behave more the way you’d expect from like a Shonen battle anime. desexualized nudity is rather the point of the show, what with demon clothing trying to eat everyone – no one gets to keep their clothes past a certain point. it doesn’t have to work for everyone, it just did for me.
as for the leftism, it’s not just because they’re fighting fascists – the show is critical of capitalism, shows it’s decay into fascism, and spends a lot of time on the internecine squabbles between different kinds of leftists, before the eventual revolution.
One Piece good
FMA good
Mob Psycho 100 good
Other stuff probably also good, I haven’t seen it
Hellsing cool. Pure vibes.
Castlevania was also good.Anybody got some good non-shonen to recommend? When I say good I mean good and not “yeah it’s good for an anime”.
mostly drawing a blank but i really enjoyed bloom into you, gay romance rocks
Bocchi!
prove me wrong
Promised Neverland and Made in Abyss
I’m not sure why people are obsessed with Evangelion, what happened to make it some sort of “meme anime”? I never found it to be remotely popular while growing up, or even in the early 2010s when I did a lot of anime watching
A show called made in abyss about exploring a maiden’s abyss is not as god a pun as it seemed years ago
I think what made it the “meme anime” was that Evangelion was the first anime to really go all-out on merchandising. You could get evangelion curry. With sonic that’s kinda funny, but when the anime is some weird spiritual allegorical thing, you get kind of a whiplash. Going from watching Shinji “god I’m so fucked up” to seeing them all smiling on a pack of oreos is jarring and kinda funny. It made people on the early net post the merch and share pictures of it, which led to making memes about the merch, which led to memes about the show itself.
But that’s just a theory
honestly, I’ve found revolutionary girl utena did everything evangelion was trying to do better. but it was aimed at girls so no one talks about it.
It has a better movie than Evangelion, too.
Madoka is the Evangelion of magical girl anime. It’s the one that people approach like “
actually, this one subverts the tropes of GENRE,” but the genre has been doing the “damn, it’s kinda abusive to expect a kid to be a hero” since the 70s (if not earlier).It’s really annoying when people are like “why are these kids saving the world in children’s media?” The whole point is to give the kids a power fantasy they can project into while showing good moral actions. The shows that deconstruct it like eva or madoka are useful because society does place a lot of pressure on kids to solve their parent’s problems(or the world’s problems more generally) and these shows can be used as an example of that, but it makes sense kids wanna see other kids like them with the power to protect themselves and others.
Same goes for people who think it’s stupid when Goku makes friends with most of his former antagonists, like Piccolo or Vegeta. It’s YA fiction, they’re trying to teach these kids that you can find things in common and make friends with people that you used to dislike!
People will never forgive steven universe, a children’s show about tolerance, forgiveness, and talking through your problems, for ending without the child killing his family.
