Propaganda is flying around like crazy in this conflict and I think it’s time for our community to come together and try to separate the truth from misinformation and chaff. Similar to my last post on the al-Ahli Hospital Massacre, we’re going to go with the following format:
For top-level comments, post the claim being made as well as who made the claim (please cite as close to the original source as possible) and, if possible, the date/time that claim was made.
For other comments, please try to either prove or debunk claims using multiple sources and verifiable information.
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(bug for awareness)
[2023/11/15] Haaretz has released a list of 1175 confirmed casualties
This list is continually updated. Per this list there are 1175 casualties (1087 from October 7th): 771 civilians, 59 police, 332 IDF, and 13 emergency services. Some number of these casualties are foreign, non-Israeli migrant workers.
Is there a pattern to how the civilians were killed? I scrolled a bit and many of them do not have a cause of death.
The numbers seem pretty solid around 750-800 Israeli civilian deaths. The question now seems to be which side fired the shots and whether they were avoidable. Some people on Hexbear have suggested it was poorly trained IDF shooting indiscriminately which caused many of the deaths, but so far that just seems to be speculation.
I don’t think there’s anything concrete as far as numbers go, but we do have an Israeli news source giving a few interesting tidbits (emphases mine):
As the pilots struggled to differentiate between terrorists and civilians, the decision was made to prioritize the immediate halt of the influx of Hamas terrorists and the potentially dangerous Gaza mobs breaching the border.
What would they be prioritizing this over? Presumably, making sure the person they’re targeting is a combatant before firing.
The initial pace of the strikes against the thousands of infiltrators was staggering, with the pilots eventually slowing down their attacks and meticulously selecting targets.
This implies a haphazard, “kill anything that moves” approach was employed at first.
Hamas terrorists deliberately played a cunning game with the helicopter pilots and special forces operatives. briefings revealed that the terrorists were advised to advance cautiously into the settlements and military outposts, to walk and not run, in order to appear like they were Israeli. This deception tactic persisted for some time until the Apache pilots realized that all constraints should be disregarded.
Constraints in this case would likely be silly little things like making sure your target isn’t a civilian before shooting.
No surprise. Israeli settlers aren’t really valued by Israel for anything other than their names and numbers in eviction proceedings.
As far as I remember, apparently a video of helicopter gunships accidentally shooting down Israeli civilians in the concerts wasn’t showing that at all, at least according to israellycool, a Zionist website…
That being said, I don’t believe according to it that “In other words, everything about the tweet was false.”
I say this, because then why did the article writers of Y net admit it in the text self that the military pilots did confuse between Israeli civilians and Hamas fighters, until a certain point…
(context: the ‘debunker’ used the y-net article that mentioned friendly fire as a main topic, which was also used by Megatron, the original purveyor of the friendly fire claim)
I’m open to any additions to critiquing and countering this counter-claim
The evidence for that claim was more from statements made by IDF officials and soldiers IIRC
