- cross-posted to:
- upliftingnews@lemmit.online
- technology@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- upliftingnews@lemmit.online
- technology@lemmy.zip
Adults and teens concerned about their screen time are turning in their smartphones for “dumber” models.
Buried in the settings of many smartphones is the option to look up how much on average you are staring at your phone per day.
It can bring an uncomfortable realisation, that what was supposed to be a useful piece of technology has become an obsession.
…
According to a study by Harvard University, using social networking sites lights up the same part of the brain that is also triggered when taking an addictive substance. This has raised concerns about phone habits among youth.
In the UK, research by Ofcom estimates that around a quarter of children aged five to seven years old now have their own smartphone.
Links have been shown in some studies between use of social media and a negative effect on mental health - especially in children.
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I looked into this before, but I found the options were too stripped down.
Ultimately I need:
- Maps
- Music streaming
- Web browser
- Wallet functionality
Then there are miscellaneous apps that I need as well, some that don’t have browser functionality (local bike rental app) or something like a workout tracker.
Thing is, if you start adding functionality for the above then it’s just a regular smart phone and there’s nothing stopping you using the apps you’re trying to avoid :/
Are people really so addicted to social media that they can’t use their own willpower to simply not have those apps installed?
Yes!
It’s a problem that a lot of people have, some are willing to acknowledge it and try to take steps to work around it.
Some people were born into the social media generation and have been fed a product designed to be addictive their entire lives.
I don’t really understand poor self control, but I concede it exists and many people have it.
I can’t really imagine what it’s like to decide to do a thing and then just… don’t. Not like “I decided to run a mile and discovered I physically couldn’t”, but “I decided to uninstall the app and then I just didn’t”
Who’s in charge? What’s happening in there?
It’s not poor self control. It’s addiction. Some people reinstall Instagram for the same reason some people light another cigarette.
Preeeeaaaccchhhh!!!
I don’t really understand addiction. I’m not denying it exists, but I haven’t experienced it firsthand so I struggle to imagine what it’s like.
I feel like I’m in charge of my decisions and I can’t imagine otherwise. Is it like you black out and suddenly you’re outside with a smoke?
I like to compare addiction with hunger. You are feeling bad when you have it and only eating will get you feel comfortable again. Also it is hard to fast. It’s difficult to not eat something.
You are most likely not making the decision " I am eating now so my body has something to process" more in the line of “I’m hungry. I don’t want to feel hungry, therefore I’m going to eat”
(edit) And you are absolutely able to get yourself sick that way, depending what you eat and how.
I responded to your other comment, but I like this question too. I haven’t been addicted to a substance, but I can firmly say for other things that the answer is “No”. I’m not blacked out, I’m completely present when I’m making this choice, but sometimes there’s a constant justification of “ok I’ll do it this last time and tomorrow is when I’ll resist it.” And you keep doing that. And that voice gets weaker over time to where you just start accepting that this is what you do now. And that often comes with self-loathing and frustration.
Imagine having the worst flu you’ve ever had. It feels like you’re dying. And there is literally only one thing that will help and taking it will instantly cure you.
You’re going to do what you can to get that thing. It’s a difficult urge to fight, especially when it feels like life or death (and in the case of alcohol and benzos, it can be).
Your body dictates that you do things all of the time… You can only hold in your piss and shit for so long before it starts to harm you. You need to eat food. You need oxygen, and cannot hold your breath until you die. Your body has tons of “reflexes” that cause you to do things outside of your control all of the time.
I’ve never experienced addition either, luckily. From what I understand, you become more and more reliant on the substance, to the point where you literally cannot function if you don’t smoke that cigarette. Depression, lack of sleep, constant grumpiness, they’re all withdrawal symptoms for a reason. At the same time, it heavily affects your judgement and decision-making abilities, making it incredibly difficult to resist the urge to light a cigarette.
Now imagine trying to quit. You’re depressed, haven’t slept right in three days, and a cigarette can instantly give you that boost of dopamine you so desperately want and need. Besides, it’s just one cigarette, right? How bad could it hurt? I can’t blame anybody for failing to quit. Quitting an addiction sounds like hell, and I’m glad I’ve never needed to experience it.
Whoa dude, these are questions nobody’s ever asked before!
Try reading a book or something, damn… This shit has been talked about and studied to death, you don’t need to hypothesize.
Or just see if you can hold your breath until you die. You can’t? WHO’S IN CONTROL? Spooky.
That’s kinda… odd
Not relating to poor self control at all sounds like being dishonest with yourself or some sorta personality disorder.
Poor self control at times is like a fundamental part of being human. I’ve never met anyone who hasn’t had poor self control at times, even these “self control” guru people talk about it as something that’s always there but you need to overcome it.
Maybe we’re not talking about quite the same thing, or I communicated badly?
There was a forum I liked and used every day, but then for reasons that aren’t important I decided to not use it anymore. For weeks I still thought about the site and would accidentally start typing the URL sometimes. But I’d committed to leaving, so I left.
It sucked but it wasn’t hard in the same way that running a mile or doing calculus is hard.
Or like when a family member was a huge asshole I really wanted to just let them have it. But I didn’t, because that would’ve made things worse. But I guess I understand how you might decide to just let loose there.
So I guess I do understand it better than my previous post.
Maybe the problem for me is not really getting it when it’s about, like, doing the dishes. Or going to work on time. Things that seem so easy to me they don’t even register as a self control check.
Well, that’s the difference. At different points in my life I’ve had varying levels of self-control. You have a higher bar than I do right now for what requires a self-control check.
My username is what it is for a reason. I don’t think being on a site like this improves my health or mentality in any way, yet here I am. I still go on Reddit on a desktop when I’m working almost out of habit, even though I’m kicking myself mentally the whole time I’m scrolling. I wake up, say “30 more minutes” to myself knowing full well that will make me start work later, less prepared, hungry, and unshowered and I’ll have to work later into the night (when I work from home). I watch YouTube until 1 am or later most nights because I don’t want to sleep even though I’m tired and I know it will make my day miserable tomorrow. Dishes are piling up because I say I’ll get to it later.
People have different thresholds for this and at other times in my life I could just shut off many of these urges. Right now, because of my mental health, that ability for self control is near zero. Just think of that push-back you get when you say to yourself you’re going to go for a run and imagine that push-back to be stronger and applied to literally anything that requires effort or mental presence.
The psychology term is “locus of control”. It’s used to describe how much control a person has over their life, with an internal locus of control more associated with taking personal responsibility. Like “I see a mountain, I’m going to climb it” versus an external locus such as “I can never get ahead at work because my boss is mean to me, it doesn’t matter what I do”.
Since the article says smartphone addiction triggers a chemical response similar to drug addiction, it’s helpful to look at addiction resources for some answers to your question. As fyi, the reason you’re getting downvoted use because it could be perceived that you lack empathy for others who can’t control themselves but based on your question and other comments, it seems like you’re actually just curious about the topic.
When you asked “who’s in charge”, it was insightful because a number of articles about addiction ask that same question. Eg:
https://recovery.org/pro/articles/whos-in-charge-you-or-your-addiction/
Thanks. I’ve heard of locus of control before (as opposed to locust of control, which sounds rather metal).
My mother was always late for work. She’d say it was because of the traffic lights, or the coffee took too long to make, or whatever. I’d be like “just start getting ready for work 15 minutes earlier” and she’d act like I was a crazy asshole. She has a very external locus of control. Things happen to her for no reason, and nothing she’s done has any connection. Drives me crazy.
I do struggle with empathy but I’m working on it.
It’s not strictly social media. It’s boredom. We’re basically using these things to groom ourselves to have attention problems.
And in the end it’s not that they can’t, but they actually have absolutely no reason to want to. There’s no immediate or probably even no intermediate consequence to sitting down on TikTok for 2 hours. You get your serotonin boost and nothing bad happened.
Of course you could have spent the time constructively, learn a new skill, cleaned the bathroom, but those are the exact opposite of getting that serotonin boost.
Yes. That’s how addictions work.
Mm… You don’t have a single thing in your life where you struggle with self control?
Really?
It’s a completely foreign concept to you?
We are on social media right now
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Instead of asking us, perhaps define addiction for us first, and how it corresponds to willpower.
I would miss the camera the most
I do have a nice camera but it’s a lot to carry around
For me it’s maps and WhatsApp sadly. If I could get out of those, I would go to a dumb phone fairly quickly
Quite a few of the dumb phones have WhatsApp. Although the maps experience would suck.
Personally, since they already have WhatsApp, having a good camera and 5G tether are my two wishlist items. 4G tether is probably fine for the most part but the good camera would be missed.
That with an iPad mini, so that I can still use banking apps and maps but I’d have it in a bag so that it’s not simple to access and I could leave it at home would be my ideal.
Do you happen to know a few of these? We don’t have these in the US
You mean like this? Nokia 6300, has WhatsApp, apparently has Google Maps, 4G for tethering. Shitty camera is the drawback for me, otherwise it hits all the spots.
Loos like that one is no longer sold in the US, but I see this one is Nokia 2780 Flip | Unlocked | Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile | Blue https://a.co/d/2gPbkB8
That’s a shame as the 2780 doesn’t have WhatsApp.
It doesn’t? I thought on the pics it did. Dam
There are screentime apps that can track and limit the useage of certain apps. You can use your bike rental app as long as you want but can set a specific time limit for others like 1 hour on youtube, 30 minutes for lemmy etc.
I used one before and it helped me quantify the time I was wasting and gave me tools to limit my usage.
Just uninstall the apps you’re trying to avoid
Well yeah but then it’s back to the addictive aspect. That’s like telling a heroin addict to carry around all the supplies for heroin in his pocket but just don’t do heroin. People trying to recover from heroin probably shouldn’t keep heroin in their pockets.
It’s actually the opposite of that. It’s like telling a guy to not carry supplies around in his pocket. Sure, he can always buy more if he wants, but at least that’s an extra step.
If you want to reinstall the apps you can but at least they’re not readily available
But they are still readily available, despite the extra step. All it takes is one bored day to hit download in the app store and be doom scrolling again. It would be like if you didn’t have the supplies on you, but you drove by your dealer’s house every day on your commute (or had his number in your contacts). Every time you look at your phone, you know the option is right there and have to fight that temptation.
Another example would be having alcohol in a locked cabinet. Sure, it’s locked up, but if you have the key in your pocket, the people that it’s going to stop are the people with a strong will anyways.
The people who really need the help are just going to end up in a cycle of uninstalling and reinstalling Facebook over and over again because that option is right there in your hand every single day.
I don’t understand why you don’t just uninstall what you don’t need?
Just don’t buy more heroin. Addicition solved. Why didn’t anyone think of that?
This is what I don’t get. Just don’t use social media on your phone. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. on my phone. But the camera, maps, music and audiobooks, email, calendar, digital wallet, etc. are invaluable to me. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Because some people struggle with self-control. Uninstalling apps is reversal by installing them again.
I forget the names now as I have better control and habits but there are several apps that will block you from using apps you set a time for. For instance if I don’t want to use Voyager for Lemmy during certain hours then it would just not let me.
There are ones where you can remove them all from your iOS screen and just have borrowing text links to vital apps like Email, Messages, Phone, etc.
Because social media exploits the same mental addiction as gambling, “retail therapy,” and adrenaline and exercise addiction. You may as well tell a caffeine addict to just stop drinking coffee every morning and cut chocolate out of their diet.
This is something that people who have never experienced mental health issues like addiction struggle to grasp because they’ve never had the wiring in their brain used against them by companies like this. It takes immense willpower to fight against the physical makeup of your brain and not fall to the temptation of reinstalling social media for the endorphins.
Except for, you know, not installing the apps on your phone.
Yeah same here. I’ve ditched all social media now except Lemmy and for that I have only a handful of favorite subs I like to read.
But I use my phone for photos, music, email and wallet. Occasionally maps if in a pinch.
Without knowing anything about you or your habits, I’m going to offer a counterpoint -
I’d suggest you don’t need music streaming, email, or a fitness tracker built into your phone. “Back in the day” we’d have a small collection of tapes / CDs in the car for trips, most (all?) email providers offer decent web apps, and while I agree it’s useful to track steps and food intake and such - anymore I’m not sure I trust the makers of these fitness apps to not sell my health data.
Personally, I’m trying to move towards a “dumb phone”, but like you I use my phone for a lot more than just social media & I’m finding it very tough. I think a phone with just a decent web browser could do the trick.
It’s 2024, a lot of people haven’t stored music locally for a decade or even longer. You are likely asking them to completely build a music library from scratch. This is no small task and it requires constant attention to keep up to date if you’re into new music.
a lot people haven’t stored music locally for a decade or longer
Yeah, digital sales have greatly outpaced physical, but more people are discovering how little control they have over “their” music library.
The alternative to “building a library” is to stick with services that will constantly increase in price & decrease in quality. You have no control over whether your favorite band(s) are available, and no recourse if their catalog disappears for whatever reason. You will be forced to scroll through “suggested content” (ads) regardless of your subscription, and the musicians see depressingly little of the money they make for the service.
“Building a library” can be as simple as buying an album based on a song you enjoyed on the radio. There’s no “lock-in”, there’s no always-increasing monthly bill, and there’s no chance of the store saying “uh you can’t listen to that anymore”. It’s dead simple, but certainly not as flexible as streaming.
Side note - I’m absolutely the type of person who would take the time and “re-build” my library, but I acknowledge I’m in a small minority of people, there. I also love shuffling through playlists which is impossible to do with physical media. Until I find a magic answer I’m right here with the rest of you with a streaming service.
You purposely cut off “a lot.” Your comment is completely unnecessary.
I don’t need a lecture in people’s incorrect idea of digital “ownership.”
but I acknowledge I’m in a small minority of people, there.
Then what are you disagreeing with me about?
lol genuinely misread you there, however if you read the rest of the comment that typo makes no difference. I’ll correct it
It makes a ton of difference. “A lot“ acknowledges that there are people who do and people who don’t keep music locally. You responded as if I said the former doesn’t exist, which is ridiculous because I run my own home server and manage all the media for my family. The point is not everyone is interested in doing this stuff - you even acknowledged you’re in a minority who enjoys managing their own local media. I don’t get what this is even about anymore. What are we even disagreeing about? What warranted this lecture about how we don’t own media (as if I ever said otherwise)?
It seems like you’re just grinding an ax about something and I don’t quite know why I’m the target. And frankly I don’t now how you could’ve misread it when you even went back to quote it and just cut it off right after the words, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here.
I got a couple hundred gigs I collected over the years, and haven’t touched it or added to it since streaming was viable.
was exactly in the same boat until about a year ago when I got sick of Spotify’s shit and the way they treat artists, so I slowly rebuilt my library and run it through my Plex server. I ultimately want to get over to Jellyfin, but it was more important to me to have something that my family can access without much fuss since they are not as technically inclined as I am. If there’s too much friction they’re just going to default to Spotify and such lol
I paid for google music from release till they killed it. Now I just use YouTube since its free and has the neiche stuff. No point in paying if an adblocker can make it tolerable.
Still dependent on google/YT and adblockers, so I’d start working on a backup plan!
The only other option is to torrent everything but thats a bit of a pain. If YouTube can stop me from blocking ads, they would have actually done it by now.
But I want music streaming. I am not going to buy a cd player just so I can listen to music on the train.
Also even if I had a car there is no way I’m buying CDs (or tapes if you can even buy or listen to them anywhere) for everything I want to listen to. That would be prohibitively expensive.
But personally I don’t use social media that much. I pretty much only use Lemmy and Reddit and very occasionally Instagram.
Yar + MP3’s can live on a lot of dumb phones (just fyi) but I also get this completely. Building a music library from scratch or at least for the first time in years is a big task.
but I want music streaming
Hey, that’s fine & I get it - so much easier to shuffle a playlist than figure out which album you won’t mind hearing front-to-back again. I’m eyeballing old iPod Classics for that - I’ve seen folks mod them with sizable drives and better batteries. Dunno that I want to put in the effort, myself, but I love the idea of “upcycling” old tech.
Getting back to my original reply: my main point was you don’t need these conveniences, much less having them built into your phone. Yep, music streaming is wonderfully handy & I use it every day, but practically speaking there are other methods.
Getting back to my original reply: my main point was you don’t need these conveniences, much less having them built into your phone. Yep, music streaming is wonderfully handy & I use it every day, but practically speaking there are other methods.
True, but I don’t need a phone either.
Or well I actually do because of the digital ID we use where I live but apart from that I never really need to talk to anyone.
I have a work phone (iPhone SE) and I do need that one, but I won’t install social media on that one anyways even though we are allowed to use it as a personal phone and even transfer our personal mobile number to the company. The only restriction on the work mobile is that no TikTok is allowed. A lot of the employees do use the work phone that way, but I refuse.
Music streaming does not seem at all incompatible with a dumb phone. Maybe you have to go to your desktop for advanced settings, but the basics should work fine.
Also, with their oftentimes crazy physical configurations, and strange yet wonderful assortment of doohickies, dumb phones were way cooler than most smart phones today. But I will burn this shit all down if they dont ALL have USB-C charging going forward.
… using social networking sites lights up the same part of the brain that is also triggered when taking an addictive substance.
I can absolutely believe this. When I was having trouble quitting nicotine one of the ways I’d distract myself was to just sit and scroll bullshit on my phone. I can say without a doubt that it was hitting some of the same spots as the addiction I was trying to quit, for sure
Phones still pre-infected with anti-libre software, software we don’t control.
When’s the last time Tor, OBS, NewPipe or F-Droid abused us, exploited us? Never, they don’t fail to include a libre software license text file, like AGPL.
absolute power corrupts absolutely. It’s not that those softwares are noble, they’re just decentralized. I will say it’s impressive that Tor doesn’t have some people pulling the strings trying to take over (but it’s probably the NSA right?)
It was created by the US military so what do you think lol
OBS is decentralised? Not the first word I would pick.
is it not open source? That helps to decentralize power though powerful figures can still appear in those spaces too, like (benevolent) Torvalds on the Linux kernel
That’s not really what people mean by decentralized in this space but I get what you mean
It’s libre software.
?
It’s distributed under the GNU General Public License v2 (or any later version) - see the accompanying COPYING file for more details.
Yes
Apparently it’s not possible to own a smart device and just not install Facebook 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
I know you’re joking but mine won’t let me uninstall it, and get this, “disable” won’t work either! Samsung S9 (quite old now) btw if anyone reading this wants to avoid.
It sounds like your issue is more of a user thing and not a technical thing. Can you not root the device and install Graphene or a clean Android OS without the Samsung crap? I feel this is 100% solvable. But then I don’t buy Samsung garbage, so maybe out of the loop.
Also, Facebook needs an account. So another option is to just not have one. I haven’t had Fb since leaving college back in 2015. Doesn’t affect my life in the least.
Rooting has always been beyond most users, even if it’s technically trivial. It’s definitely solvable, unfortunately most solutions in this direction tend to draw attention of corporate legal teams.
even if it’s technically trivial
I wouldn’t call it trivial. I’ve seen my mom use a phone and you’d be amazed how much stuff isn’t trivial to anyone over 50.
With an S9, you can probably just remove it via ADB. I know after a certain update they make it hard to remove stock apps via ADB, but some are still possible.
So funny story about the S9 it’s only some of them are actually rootable because you can only unlock the bootloader on some of them I happen to have one currently typing this on it and let me tell you it is kind of right pain in the ass to deal with these phones and Custom os’s. Android 13 on this is a mess trying to install. Forget updates that’s are basically like reinstalling my current crdroid I have to do a whole bunch of jiggery Pokery in magisk creating a new patched loader beforinstalling some things can onlybefastboote installed like the is in crdroids case.
Never liked Samsung. No idea how they sold so many handsets with their cringy anti Apple ads. Bottom line barrel company imo that only makes decent panels and good SSDs.
They are a Korean chaebol and have been involved in a ton of legal drama. The most notable one was avoiding the cost of safety masks and suits but forcing recent graduates to work in unsafe conditions giving them leukaemia or worse. They denied it and it took about 3 years for them to finally be found at fault.
I wouldn’t use their stuff just on moral grounds. Always heard their droids were filled with bloatware and lacked support. Sucks you fell into their trap. Godspeed
I’ve had a galaxy phone on and off since the s2. Actually mine was the epic 4g “s2” for sprint. Loved it others than the wimax it was a perfect device… S3 was the same. Went through 6 of those over time had all the colors. Loved my panda phone s3 made outta all my spare parts. The note 4 /s5 was thee pinicale point in my opinion of the phones them selves others then the USB 3.0 version 1 rember way back when it was just a dolled up USB 2.0 port with a added bit for the 3.0 pinning. You could still use your 2.0 micro cables with them to charge or transfer files just obviously at 2.0 speeds and levels.
Also, you dont need to buy a nice ferrari. Just get a cheap Toyota Tercel from facebook and then start replacing body, drivetrain, engine and interior with ferrari parts. I feel this is 100% solvable. But then I don’t buy cars, so maybe out of the loop.
This is the Andy Dick of metaphors
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I’m not the one that bought a Samsung phone. I don’t get people. Don’t buy their shit. Did someone hold a gun to your head? Do a bit of research if that shit is important to you. I bet half of you don’t even know what you’re arguing about amongst yourselves.
Rooting is a technical thing, not a user thing. You should not need to perform a complex and risky task like Rooting, to make a phone usable. It should come that way with those options to uninstall facebook by default.
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Also saves a bunch of money. You can keep a dumb phone hooked up for less than $20/mo, while smart phone plans can be 3-5x that price.
What’s Facebook?
I think it’s an 17th century vessel that primarily ships spices
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I wish I could go back. Sadly too much of my life relies on this shit.
You absolutely can! Ive been doing something similar.
Two devices - one that’s a mini computer, and the other is a phone.
That mini computer is a old phone without a network plan. And if it doesn’t have wifi, I can’t jump onto social media or anything. Which is pretty nice as I’m reading books or writing on that device with “less” distractions. And if I get a text message, i quickly check it on my phone and put it away.
I’m addicted to Lemmy, send help!
I’m not sure 19 days is enough to get hooked.
It was mostly meant to be a joke lol
Carl is that you? Oh wait, I thought you said Lenny, sorry.
I chose beer and amphetamines (substituted) to curb my alcohol and drug addiction (same fucking thing, I know…).
You jest, but without cannabis, I’d probably be in prison or dead in a ditch somewhere from opioid overdose.
I’ve encountered that a lot. That’s really great! I hope you’re somewhere you don’t have to endanger your freedom to acquire your alternative.
Got a dumb phone a few weeks back. Definitely helped on that front.
It’s just really hard to find a decent MP3 player to go along with it these days.
I dusted off and refurbished my ipod classic for that duty.
They’re going for a pretty penny these days. I used to be an Archos guy. Also a fan of the Sandisk Sands ClipZip but goddamn those batteries are tiny and don’t last the 10+ years since manufacture.
I miss my Zune.
If you’re interested in pairing down the functionality of your current phone, the app Freedom can be used to block specific apps for a set amount of time. Self-control is a limited resource, and it takes the need to use willpower out of your hands.
After ten months of waiting I finally got my cyberdeck with 4g modem and have started to migrate my communication over to it. I’ll start leaving the house without a phone soon.
What cyberdeck do you have?
I got a clockwork pi! The support is a bit rough but if you’re comfortable with Linux and package management, it’s an absolute blast.
Did you get the devterm or uconsole?
Uconsole
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My smart phone makes a nice computer, but a crap phone. An older one couldn’t do phone and Google Maps without a reboot between them.
Looking at feature phones just to have a phone.
Some folks want to see the world crumble, some dont
I only use Lemmy with turned off scores and it still is somewhat above just a habit. It really makes wonders for being not addicted though when you don’t see if someone gives you points/likes or not. That was always what fucked with my brain the most and for me it is a single thing that changes addiction to just a habit.
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