Not so friendly reminder that musk specifically came up with, and pushed, for hyperloop knowing that it would never be made, as an effort to stop the development of highspeed rail in America and shift all political discussions of it because “something better is around the corner”:
As I’ve written in my book, Musk admitted to his biographer Ashlee Vance that Hyperloop was all about trying to get legislators to cancel plans for high-speed rail in California—even though he had no plans to build it. Several years ago, Musk said that public transit was “a pain in the ass” where you were surrounded by strangers, including possible serial killers, to justify his opposition.
Also: 2024 update, the total length of China’s high-speed rail tracks has now reached well over 45,000 km, or 28,000 miles, by the end of 2023.
They are additionally five years ahead of schedule and expect to double the total number within ten years. And, before someone inevitably complains about “how expensive it is”, they are turning over a net-profit of over $600M USD a year.
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To be fair, China doesn’t have to deal with eminent domain.
And annoying stuff like human rights
That’s why the US didn’t build high-speed rail?
Come on bro. What human rights violations are the Chinese specifically violating to build high-speed rail?
Last I checked, you don’t have to drive to a different state to get an abortion in China either, btw. So nice job cherrypicking “human rights” bullshit.
It’s so obvious when we’re dealing with people whose brains are rotted from propaganda as a result of the trade war.
When did I mention anything about human rights?
That’s the real reason yes. Not sure if hyperloop being underground avoids that problem or one still has to deal with property owners
Nope, still have to get permission from folks for that, too.
The US does? The black neighborhoods they destroyed to build highways would like to speak to you
Except they can’t, because their residents are mostly dead. From old age.
We don’t do that anymore, for good fucking reason.
We still do it, it’s just that the voices are louder now when we try. My city was wanting to run a new bridge to replace an old, failing bridge, and SURPRISE, most of the neighborhoods that would’ve been impacted were historically nonwhite. Thanks to the Internet, it got a lot wider dispersal, and a lot more people were able to rally against it.
Pretty good chance they died from the consequences of poverty.
I hope people realize that the issue isn’t musk but California’s reliance on the private sector to do public good.
Union Pacific’s profits over the last 20 years would have paid for a high speed rail line from Chicago to Los Angeles
The existence of that entity as a private owner of critical American infrastructure, which uses it to extract rents from the American economy, has cost us at least one trans-continental high speed rail line worth of value.
California actually spent billions on a high speed rail without laying a single mile of track. I guess someone got rich from that.
I’ve been on the high speed line from Shanghai, it’s fantastic. Covered 700km in around 2 hours with beautiful views of the landscape. The ride was comfortable and relaxing.
I’ve also been on the Shanghai Maglev, which I believe at the time and maybe still is the fastest passenger train in the world. It was pretty amazing flying over the motorway. It goes between Pudong airport and Shanghai city centre in about 10 minutes. I felt slightly nauseous during the acceleration.
China would be such a nice place to live if it wasn’t such a bad place to live
I’ve got friends who lived long stretches in China, living there isn’t the problem, the fascist government and the shit it does is the problem.
Dear Mr Musk,
Where is my hyperloop, you lying fucken cunt!
Yours sincerely,
Everyone
Realistically, no one should want that thing. It’s a death machine waiting to happen. It would absolutely get the nick name “HyperDeath” so fast.
Examples
Why do you go on roller coasters?
Are you being serious? Are you equating roller coasters to the hyperloop?
Cuz if you’re going to equate things you should equate the hyperloop to the Titan submersible from last year.
Titan made a few successful dives before the big squash.
Take a chance, roll them bones. After all, here for a good time, not a long time.
If I’m talking chances, I’ll do it on my own terms, not those of a narcissistic asshole billionaire.
Also when’s the last time someone experienced fucking vacuum implosion on a roller coaster? I ride roller coasters because it’s a safe way to get an adrenaline rush, not because of the possibility of fucking dying.
Then you won’t want to check out this list of roller coaster deaths
https://coasterpedia.net/wiki/List_of_deadly_roller_coaster_accidents
So you really are trying to equate hyperloop and roller coasters?
The cult of musk is fucking disgusting.
It’s abhorrent how much influence he has on public decisions.
The man is a monster and his sycophantic followers are incapable of critical thought.
incapable of critical thought.
Look in the mirror, bud.
Why are you insulting someone who is agreeing with you…?
To paraphrase the great Big Daddy Kane:
Anything goes when it comes to hos cos simpin’ ain’t easy!
Keep simpin’ ya simp!
Search Thunderf00t on YouTube. Researched and sourced refutation of each of musk’s many and always evolving lies, from an actual physicist with a PhD.
thunderf00t is a raging misogynist. Like he made hundreds of gamergate videos obsessing over this one woman for daring to criticize the portrayal of women in videogames
I’m down to reject bigots being bigots. But even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
yes he’s a scientist and has a lot of videos debunking tech bro pseudoscience, I just think it’s worth knowing how muvh of an unhinged asshole he is
🤡
thunderf00t is a raging misogynist. Like he made hundreds of gamergate videos obsessing over this one woman for daring to criticize the portrayal of women in videogames
Completely false.
I feel like we can talk about how Elon and mass transit in America are the worst without making poor comparison to China.
We can’t compete with nationalized railroads.
Yeah it’s amazing how fast and cheaply you can build infrastructure when there’s no labour rights and no property rights.
This is FUD to support the trade war between USA and China.
Do not fall prey.
I am sorry?
There literally is no property right in China. You’re only allowed to “lease” property from the government.
Also, does “996” ring a Bell?
The US Government refers to you as a tenant in your own home that you ‘own’. This is so they can take over it with imminent domain whenever they feel like it. Stop pretending we actually have property rights in the US, they can take anything from you at any time, it is US Law.
addition: You are less free than you think you are. We are far from the freest country on earth. Funny how Norway, a fairly socialist leaning country is the Freest on the Freedom Index. They also have one of highest rates of billionaires… USA is somewhere around 30th
We are being misled. Capitalism leads to corporatism. It is a time bomb of an economic system which requires 3% compound growth infinitely. that is a pipe-dream, not socialism
And quality control
I would never set foot into a chinese Train
I have seen 3 Videos of derailed chinese Trains in the last 2 years and I have no idea how many more the CCP successfully covered up.
I’ve been on a few. They’re quite… nice? At least the high speed rail ones between cities. Better than anything I’ve seen in europe or UK.
In terms of train derailments, you have to consider the size of the country
Better than anything I’ve seen in europe or UK
I will unironically take you out for a Beer here in Switzerland. You can choose: Geneva, Bern, Lucern or Zürich. Because no, the trains in China are definitely worse than those here in Switzerland. Trust me.
They’re really really fast, I’ll give them that (If you’re on one of the ones that the CCP prioritized as a prestige-project), but other than that: No, Swiss trains are just better.
Also:
In terms of train derailments, you have to consider the size of the country
I am going to have to strongly disagree.
The Video I saw was a earthslide that destroyed the rails and no early warning system picked it up causing the Train to run into it full speed and derailing
If your railways don’t have early warning systems, that’s just completely unacceptable. Train safety has absolutely nothing to do with the size of a country.
Which I was especially disappointed in since I once saw a documentary about how the chinese had apparently implemented the swiss train-security system into their railway system. But I guess only the “important” routes get the upgrade. Everywhere else either doesn’t get it or the money goes into the carpark of the local Officials.
Swiss trains are so good that they cross the border to break the strikes of other countries. I will say the exception is Switzerland.
But compare it to the DB ICE, or to National Rail / Southern / Great Western, or TGV going cross country. China trains win, imo.
In terms of early warning systems I can’t comment
woah, woah, context, context!
We only drove international routes that would have impacted Swiss people if they just suddenly stopped at the Swiss border. We didn’t “break” a Strike, we just “contained” it to the country it actually belongs to.
other than that we wish the best to the protesting workers :P
But yeah, I am absolutely spoiled living here in Switzerland.
The most powerful thing about our public transport isn’t even what most people tend to think about. It’s how regional and local public transport are integrated. A Bus will be at the train station exactly at the same time as a train, so you can effortlessly change between the two. While in other countries the transport is separated so you routinely wait 20+ minutes for your next transport, in Switzerland, it is seldom more than 5-10 minutes.
Yeah, I am absolutely spoiled. But at least I know it and don’t take it for granted but instead enjoy it :)
I guess you haven’t seen the videos of people balancing coins on the windowsill while going 300+km/h.
I have seen these, I have seen the Videos where the whole train was shaking (presumably on a less “prestigious” route that wasn’t getting the sole attention of the CCP) and I have seen the Videos where a landslide destroyed tracks, no warning-system picked it up and a train derailed.
Oh interesting, so you know they’re extremely good at building infrastructure, but they still have some that’s not great, so choose to act like that’s all that exists, and it’s definitely going to kill you. Totally not a fed. Nope, just a regular guy here.
Also, communism is when natural disasters? Really, that’s a stretch.
Yoi’re Strawmanning.
Is Bejing paying you to do this?
No, they’re awful at building infrastructure. They’re able to build it really really fast, but they’re always prioritizing speed over longevity, leading to bad infrastructure that eventually collapses.
Just think about it: in Switzerland we often take longer to survey the ground than it takes the Chinese to build the whole thing. This can’t work
- you’re strawmanning. I never made this about communism, you did.
I never made this about natural disasters, I was always very clear I was talking about early warning systems
You know, the kind that stops a Train if the rails literally snapped apart
But seriously, how much does the CCP pay for this? Just keeping my options open.
You’ve seen the tracks so smooth a coin doesn’t fall over at 300km/h and you call that “awful at building infrastructure”? Curious.
But they’re fast, so it must be poor quality, right? The appeal to “just think about it” without seeking actual information is a classic.
You are maliciously ignoring / misinterpreting what I’m saying, so I’ll say it once more and then be off:
I can build you a Car that can go 200 km/h within 3 weeks
Does that make it better than a VW that takes years to develop?
No, because that car was actually tested. It has undergone a lot of testing to make sure it is safe to use in various conditions. My car didn’t do that.
Replace “my car” with “Chinese railway” and you should get the Idea
have you not been paying attention the past decade? shit is crumbling here. Overpasses falling apart, trains derailing and starting enormous chemical fires…
Drinking water that is flammable.
The lie that we are doing well is propped up by massive amounts of personal and public debt.
with how deperately you’re trying to defend china / deflect from china with whataboutism, I am starting to think you may get paid by bejing 🤔
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No, nothing is crumbling “here”. I want actual Proof that shit is crumbling “here”.
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No, “we” (you) are definitely doing well. pretty well even. Only second to the EU.
Public “debt” isn’t really a problem as long as its in measures. A country isn’t a zero-sum game, spending money isn’t “wasted” or “lost” money, it’s “invested” money. “Debt” is a Term used to make “investment into the future of the country” sound like a bad thing. which is a very conservative thing to do. which is funny, considering how you’re looking up to china.
I mean: just look at your beloved china. They’re also accumulating massive debt in order to invest into the country and pump up the economy. In the most simple example: You need money to build a port, you need a port to sell stuff, and you need to sell stuff in order to make money.
Anyways, I always said I would rather be poor in ww2-Britain than be rich in Nazi-Germany. I would still rather be poor in the US than in China.
You should really really be grateful for what you have. I don’t mean you shouldn’t strive to make your country better, but also realize that you live in a amazing country.
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We have plenty of domestic derailments to go around, so I feel like this is just casting stones from our glass house. Although in our case it’s not that the build quality is bad, it’s that maintenance has been skipped for so long that everything is falling apart.
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“muddy water is also poisonous” is a bad thing to say when I say “you shouldn’t drink arsenic”
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No, we don’t. Switzerland is one of the safest countries for trains, we invented and implemented multiple security systems for trains, riding a train here is completely safe.
I know you probably assumed I’m from the same country as you (“we”) and that your country isn’t that save, but this assumption is wrong.
“We” don’t have plenty of domestic derailments to go around.
Well, I’m not psychic, so for lack of appropriate context I’m going to naturally assume that you’re talking from the perspective of an American in the thread about how China is destroying the United States (California specifically) in high speed rail production.
Now that I know better, feel free to disregard my comment.
Yeah, but I never gave you a reason to assume that.
I simply talked about how insecure Chinese rail is. Nothing about the US or California. Frankly, you chose to just jump to conclusions, nothing natural about it.
If literally half the people online were Swiss, and had been since your childhood, it would be very natural of you to assume that most of the time when you’re talking to someone, you’re talking to a Swiss person.
You can try to paint him rude or assumptuous or anything, but I very much fail to see that. Yea there are those Americans who assume too much, too often, but this wasn’t one of those times, and your reply with the “I’m not American how dare you” while not even saying you’re Swiss is tonally really dickish and arrogant, but that’s just my personal opinion on the matter.
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East Palestine was just last year.
Jesus, stop the whataboutism
And besides, I’m from switzerland, so you need to get a new accident to whatabout
I’m not going to promote a ‘china is better’ post because that’s one of the reasons I don’t like it here. I don’t want to hear it. China is not a role model.
…what now?
Fuck China
I wouldn’t trust China to build that stuff. Have you seen what they use as construction materials of their buildings? They’re basically styrofoam and flour.
You can destroy a house with your bare hands.
i wouldn’t trust USA to build train rails. have you seen how many derailments and bridge collapses they got?
Their HSR has been running a decade at this point, with a better safety record than the US. You don’t have to ‘trust’ them to do anything, it’s already done.
Yeah the ghost cities are shit, but that’s an entirely different topic
Projects intended for the public good don’t need to be profitable. It is disingenuous to argue that High Speed Rail is profitable in China, nor can you make the assumption that it could be profitable in other markets.
There are a lot of conflicting reports on how profitable HSR is in China, the fact that government and Industry are often one in the same and the lack of good public accounting at Chinese companies makes any reports from HSR advocates out of china questionable. After all they do want to sell their HSR technology globally.
HSR is much more difficult in the US as the rights of private property are respected and projects need to pass a much higher threshold of review for environmental impact, etc. There are many major infrastructure projects in China that turn out to be poorly planned and executed years after they have been completed.
It is disingenuous to argue that High Speed Rail is profitable in China
High efficiency public infrastructure doesn’t add economic value because it won’t show up on China’s domestic ledger as “profit for shareholders”. You heard it here first.
government and Industry are often one in the same and the lack of good public accounting at Chinese companies makes any reports from HSR advocates out of china questionable
Yes, we have data to argue there is an economic benefit, but DON’T TRUST IT! Everything good you read about China is a lie and everything bad you read about China is a ten times worse.
HSR is much more difficult in the US as the rights of private property are respected
LO-fucking-L.
And that’s just the modern stuff. Google “Robert Moses” if you really want to get a taste for American style private property protections.
High efficiency public infrastructure doesn’t add economic value because it won’t show up on China’s domestic ledger as “profit for shareholders”. You heard it here first.
Weird you would write that when in the first sentence of my post, I explicitly stated that public works projects don’t need to be profitable to be justified. But hey I’m glad we agree on something, it’s great to find common ground!
Yes, we have data to argue there is an economic benefit, but DON’T TRUST IT! Everything good you read about China is a lie and everything bad you read about China is a ten times worse.
If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating, feel free to put your money where your mouth is and invest in Chinese HSR companies. It could be a great investment opportunity for you.
LO-fucking-L.
In Iowa, an ongoing saga regarding a network of carbon dioxide pipelines proposed by carbon-capture companies has united predominantly conservative farmers and environmental activists on the issue of taking privately owned land for corporate gain. Despite feeling intimidated, the Averitts wouldn’t sell their 135-acre property, along with a 100-acre commercial site the family had hoped to develop. The company, Dominion Energy, ended up claiming the land anyway via eminent domain, the power to take private land for “public use,” which in recent years has been invoked with increasing frequency by oil and gas companies seeking to build new pipelines. After Dominion and its ACP partner, Duke Energy, canceled the Atlantic Coast Pipeline in July 2020, the Averitts, who had been in the process of challenging the company in court, regained control of their land, but not without a serious financial and emotional toll. Others along the ACP’s route—often rural communities that are disproportionately BIPOC, low-income, or both—have fared even worse in the aftermath of the canceled pipeline, which was going to run from West Virginia to North Carolina, and elsewhere in the country. And that’s just the modern stuff. Google “Robert Moses” if you really want to get a taste for American style private property protections.
I once again wish to express appreciation to you for making my point for me. It is weird you would do that but hey thanks! The fact that the pipeline was tied and others were canceled because of the increased costs of eminent domain illustrates how it is more expensive to undertake major infrastructure projects in the US than it is in China.
I explicitly stated that public works projects don’t need to be profitable
If I save 10 minutes on my daily commute, I claim a profit in relative time. If I can get between home and work for $5 less a day, that profits me monetarily. You can - and plenty of papers do - demonstrate the financial benefits of a high speed transit system.
The difference between the East Asian rapid transit model and the American model is that those profits accrue primarily to the individual rather than the corporation. Claiming that Chinese/Japanese/Korean residents don’t profit from an HSR requires you to treat their time and money as valueless.
If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating
You need more on the table than “Don’t believe Chinese people, they’re all lying to you”. Hell, I’m not even sure what I’m not supposed to believe. You haven’t cited a source much less challenged one.
I once again wish to express appreciation to you for making my point for me.
Don’t trust the Chinese, because Iowa corn farmers are being sold out to the American O&G industry?
it is more expensive to undertake major infrastructure projects in the US than it is in China.
Why do you think that is?
If I save 10 minutes on my daily commute, I claim a profit in relative time. If I can get between home and work for $5 less a day, that profits me monetarily. You can - and plenty of papers do - demonstrate the financial benefits of a high speed transit system.
The difference between the East Asian rapid transit model and the American model is that those profits accrue primarily to the individual rather than the corporation. Claiming that Chinese/Japanese/Korean residents don’t profit from an HSR requires you to treat their time and money as valueless.
Weirder and weirder…you seem intent on misquoting me and taking my statements out of context. You left off the first part of my original statement:
Projects intended for the public good don’t need to be profitable.
Once again thank you for agreeing with me (even if you didn’t realize it) and finding common ground.
If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating
You need more on the table than “Don’t believe Chinese people, they’re all lying to you”. Hell, I’m not even sure what I’m not supposed to believe. You haven’t cited a source much less challenged one.
Yet again you seem intent on taking my statements out of context. Even with my exact words listed above… Are you just trying to invent straw man arguments?
No where in my sentence about the CCP did I say “Don’t believe Chinese people”, THAT IS YOUR OWN QUOTE. Quite frankly its very racist.
You can’t even cite or interpret my own text properly, why would I bother providing you with more advanced citations.
Don’t trust the Chinese, because Iowa corn farmers are being sold out to the American O&G industry?
I’m not even sure where to go with this racist rhetorical question. Once again I would advise not trusting the CCP, I have no qualms with the Chinese people. I’ve done direct business with Chinese business owners and in all my personal dealings they were honest and forthright.
Why do you think that is?
My original post covers why it is more expensive to build HSR in the US, I suggest going back and re-reading it.
Once again I would advise not trusting the CCP
Is there any actual reason for this?
Other than the obvious, of course.
No where in my sentence about the CCP did I say “Don’t believe Chinese people”
Do you know what the C in CCP stands for?
Is there any actual reason for this?
Other than the obvious, of course.
Feel free to educate yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China
https://time.com/6302515/china-philippines-south-china-sea-aggression/
Do you know what the C in CCP stands for?
Yes, do you know how a names and acronyms work? Do you also know what the CP in the CCP stands for?
Feel free to educate yourself.
All of these have been debunked.
Do you also know what the CP in the CCP stands for?
The the largest political party on earth. Might as well say “I don’t hate Americans, just all the Republicans plus all the Democrats”
