It wouldn’t hurt to bring this up the next time someone tells you Trump is an anti-war candidate.
I know someone who was born in Palestine (but spent most of his life in the US) who will be voting for Trump because, and these are his words, “I just think he’ll be better”.
Not even worth having the convo.
He knows Trump used ‘Palestinian’ as a slur, right?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/06/trump-biden-debate-palestinian-israel/
Lmao. Insanity. Man is hella hyped on Russian propaganda. Did he forget about Jerusalem?
I doubt he is hopped on Russian propaganda. It comes from the fact that the Middle East was much more stable under Trump (who’s government did try to deescalate tension) versus Biden who called himself a Zionist and supplied weapons used to carry out a genocide.
Any “but… but” won’t ever make the above statement true regardless if Trump becoming president is the worse outcome for Palestine.
Trump’s attempt at making other Muslim countries make peace with Israel without properly addressing the Palestinian question is something Hamas cited as part of their ‘casus belli’, the reason they attacked Israel. They feared that if their supposed “allies” made peace, the Palestinian cause would be lost.
Trump didn’t really deescalate tensions, rather he provoked some (e.g. the embassy move) and he tried to ignore other rising tensions because addressing those would be too difficult. One can easily argue his actions were the indirect cause of the current mess.
One can easily argue his actions were the indirect cause of the current mess.
Three years after he left office?
Yes. These major decisions have long-term effects. But note I did say indirect cause; the full reason is multi-faceted and very complex, and hard to pin down on just one person. But it certainly played a big part if Hamas directly named it as such.
My biggest concern is taking Biden out of the blame. Are other countries going mad for suggesting Biden has participiated in war crimes? Are you suggesting Biden did something different? If Biden did the same thing, wouldn’t it be Biden’s fault as he did it for three years after Trump left office?
Trump is a horrible human being but why would he blame him for something someone else caused?
Biden should get his share of the blame for what happened after October 7th. But he wasn’t the initial cause of what happened that day.
Biden did not really do all that much when it came to ME relations. He was considerably busier with Ukraine so the ME got less interest during his admin.
Trump took the major steps, e.g. the moving of the embassy, the attempts to broker peace between KSA and Israel (which of course there are rumours he/his kids personally profited from), he openly challenged Iran without much repercussions, etc… All signalling to Hamas that their cause had little chance of succeeding as their international support was clearly eroding away.
Biden didn’t reverse course, but there was little to do here. Looks bad to reverse a peace agreement or cave to Iran or to move an embassy out of Jerusalem. Not that I think he had the foresight that Hamas’d do this either. I doubt he even gave it much thought due to being preoccupied with Ukraine.
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Hate to break it to you, but Trump is all in on that genocide. Plus there’s, you know, everything else that makes Trump terrible.
You’re obviously right, Trump is worse.
But it’s hard to deny the cold reality of your comment: You are openly supporting a politician who you admit is genocidal, and you are getting upvoted for it.
The “lesser of two evils” logic continues to deteriorate the quality of our candidates and their responsiveness to the wishes of the American people.
Do you see a way, in the future, to break out of this “lesser of two evils” death spiral? Or in 2032 will you be supporting Zombie Reagan(D) because he is less evil than Zombie Hitler®?
In our current system we don’t really have a choice. FPTP basically ensures there will only be two viable candidates and they’ll come from the established parties.
Ah the good old “but you support Hitler” debating line. Glad to see the mental acuity amongst the Republican supporters matching their leader.
Ah the good old “but you support Trump” debating line. Truly you are a paragon of mental acuity.
Both candidates support Israel so pick another fucking issue.
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If his version of ‘better’ involves MOABs and a giant set of smoking craters in the Middle East, then yes. Trump was the one that launched all those tomahawks on that base and assassinated an Iranian general unprovoked, though, so we kind of already know his MO. In addition to dropping that MOAB in Afghanistan.
There’s only one choice this fall, and it certainly isn’t Trump.
I wouldn’t exactly call that assassination unprovoked. That specific general had led the Quds Force in operations that caused the deaths of hundreds of US soldiers and the injuries of tens of thousands of other soldiers. Then there’s the many, many other operations that the Quds Force have engaged in as part of Iran’s proxy wars in the region. He definitely earned a spot on the shit list.
Was it a wise decision to target him? I don’t know. But he had done plenty to deserve his fate.
You know they have a big brain because of all the mental gymnastics they do all day, every day
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How can you say the rhetoric isn’t better when his rhetoric includes sending anyone who complains to Palestine to be killed with them? He’s literally threatened to kill you for complaining about the war. Had biden threatened to send you into the genocide fields for having the gaul to complain?
Good comment, but in case anyone is wondering,
“gall”, as in gall bladder, as in ‘strong stomach’. Gauls did get stereotyped by romans as complainers I guess.
there are rooms full of rich men looking to start ww3 so they can profit from it. trump is just parroting their desires
the us military budget literally never gets lowered even when they ask for it. but education, healthcare, anything helping human beings is always on the chopping block… always be cut back.
I don’t know about lowering military budget or education or healthcare budgets at all. The key seems to be the control what those funds are spent on, to funnel them to industries and beneficiaries who support the people who get voted into office.
I truly think the great majority of policy is set based on quid pro quo.
Even anti-abortion has many economical opportunities. Morning after pills will spike. Neighboring state abortion clinics will explode in business. Labor in areas where abortions by the poors is not available will see a growing demand in baby products and immediately and eventually a very low cost labor base to manufacture goods to sell elsewhere.
I do not believe politicians are dumb, on the contrary I think they have no sense of morality. The leadership of the party are vicious sociopathic megalomaniacs. They are experts at propaganda and manipulation via the media, where they work hand in hand with billionaire media owners.
Short and near term financial gains can buy you a ticket to salvation after the planet is ruined in 50-250 years. If they need to buy luxury proprety and loads of
slavesservants to retain their standing and quality of life, they are going to do that. If they are afraid of foreign powers taking control they have no issues starting proxy wars via russia or israel so the american people can spend hundreds of billions of dollars funding the military industrial complex contracts that them and their buddies benefit from, meanwhile sending the young high potential competitors to their children or grandchildren off to die on the front line.Anyway, the last thing they want to do is focus on taking care of the american people. IGMFY is the name of the game. The few rare exceptions like Bernie spin their wheels trying to effect real change and the majority of the other politicians try to stay out of the line of fire while promoting things that benefit themselves, typically only affecting them behind the scenes.
If the Fallout TV show taught me anything, you cannot profit off of the apocalypse. That’s literally antithetical to capitalism. That’s why they disrespected the lore so much, right?
history (aka, reality) proves war to be profitable.
the american economy is incredibly dependent on creating and selling human killing devices. just go read what happens every time they try and cut back on the military-industrial complex.
Proxy wars are profitable. Total war really isn’t. Even in history for a war to be profitable, you have to be having the war outside your countries borders. Nukes aren’t profitable, and never will be.
I hear what you are saying about the MIC. I also agree with Eisenhower when he said:
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.”
Ultimately there’s no objective measure of whether “war is profitable”. There’s no objective definition of war. There’s no objective measurement of the “sides” and their profit/loss, much less the nuances of who specifically profits or loses.
But total was is relatively profitable versus being destroyed. And it’s absolutely profitable for a select group of people. Most often it’s similar people on “both sides” that profit.
Profitable for a select group of people, who should be named, shamed, tarred and feathered.
I believe that if you were to do an economic analysis of the total P/L of the entirety of human conflict, the L column would overwhelmingly outweighs the P column, even leaving out all modern warfare, which just ramps up the L side. I say that because one of my econ professors did just that during a class. He published a paper about it, but I have no clue what it was called, it would have been somewhere between '96 and '98 that he published it.
They own all the guns though how can we name and shame when they can just destroy lives with impunity?
Worry about the rest later when my bootlickers and I blame it all on democrats
The dems are completely loyal to zionism. It’s a race to the genocidal bottom.
I see the Republican fake leftist vote suppression folks are out in force on lemmy tonight. And on a post about Trump calling for nuclear war on the Middle East, no less! The BoTh sIDes is strong with this one.
Lol. Sure Jan. Keep telling that to yourself
Da komrade. Let’s get some bodka together after we clock out at the kremlin.
Ensuing global nuclear catastrophe? Don’t worry about it.
-Orange Dotard
He talked about using nukes before he got elected, people still voted for him. A trump voter isn’t going to be swayed by logic or facts or ethics.
He talked about using Nukes while in office as well. IIRC, “Fire and Fury,” was the first threat to NK.
Then Kim Jong Un gave JT the ole “you are a strong man me respect you” ego stroke and suddenly Kim was a nice man.
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About right for the man who had to be told he couldn’t nuke a hurricane.
Do not follow the orange turds advice.
Is it possible to filter post titles that start “trump says”?
It is! You can filter keywords in the Lemmy settings
“Where’s the harm in that? I had an Uncle who was very good with the nuclear. One time, he dropped a nuclear bomb, jumped on top of the bomb, and then rode it down through the skies. One of the most beautiful scenes ever seen. Funny guy, my Uncle.” - added Donnie.
likewise we should remove him from contention and worry about the rest later
Wait, wasn’t he the “for peace” candidate?
He is the “I’ll tell whatever lie might get people to clap and cheer” candidate.
That’s what he claims.
He claims a lot of things.
“For Peace” for Americans, everyone else can bomb each other to death.
And by ‘Americans’, he only means those who support him. Those who don’t get bombed, too.
dude gonna start a nuclear war
Let’s start a nuclear war and worry about the rest later.
I’ve got the concept of a nuclear victory.
he’s not famous for worrying about the consequences of his actions
And Project 2025 advocates for mandatory military service. Coincidence?
Sounds like Putins plan to take Kyiv within days, and worry about the rest later.
Trump sounds like a tired old man who cannot think of all the consequences of a decision, so he’s just picking the laziest option.
There’s no precedent in history for multiple nuclear powers waging a war, or getting pulled into one. There’s no telling what can happen because we’ve simply never been here before.
And people who think their money or resources will save them from black swan events are forgetting all the previous black swan events which made losers of everyone. The Great Recession and Covid are two most recent ones.
Most of all though, the major winners of WW2 are utter failures now. Britain is crumbling and not even a shell of its former glory, and America is eating itself from the inside out thanks to Russian PsyOps war 300 while Republican losers are salivating after ww3.
So no, ww3 is not going to MAGA, but more like nail the MAGA coffin shut
“We don’t have any evidence (other than Yemen and very public statements) that Donald will do that, therefore we must collectively throw our ballots in the garbage for some reason.”
